Not sure whether to become an ex-Epic Owner

[Bitzco]

Greetings from Utah where the boating season is about done and where my boating season is definitely done. Over Labor Day, I was with my family, our Landcruiser and SX-22, my brother in law's family, his Sequioa and S-22, and a friend's family and their boat at Lake Powell in Southern Utah. It is a huge lake in a deep narrow channel and amazingly beautiful. Anyway, while we were there and in the marina, a huge windstorm came up. The park rangers said there were gusts of 75 to 80 miles per hour. Parts of the dock, breakwater, and housboat slips were torn loose by the wind. Several monster waves rushed into the marina and swamped my boat. My wife and eight kids (4 of them mine) were in it at the time, but thankfully everyone got out and is fine. My brother in law had barely pulled his boat out of the lake and I was waiting in line in the Landcruiser on the ramp to pick my boat up when it happened. Scared the crap out of me. 15 other boats sank with mine and several houseboats blew down the channel with no captain aboard. One group of people with a houseboat had four skiboats sink.

Anyway, we got the boat pulled out of the water and had it "pickled." Took it to Marine Products in Salt Lake to be repaired. In the end it is a total loss. The engine is seized, none of the electronics work, and there is some minor damage to upholstery and fiberglass (from blowing against rocks after it sank). The repair estimate is about 22K. Insurance is going to give me about 34K for the boat and will sell it salvage. I loved that boat and will be sorry to see it go, but at least the people are all Ok.

Now, I need a new boat. There is a 2001 SX available with less than 30 hours and 2 1/2 years left on the warranty for 35K. A very tempting prospect; however, I have also been looking at some Supras (SSV), Moombas (XLV-23 foot), a Super Air Nautique, and a Mastercraft X-Star (X-20) that are pretty tempting. Perfect Pass Pro systems, good ballast systems and companies that aren't out of business. I don't want to pay over about 50K for a boat regardless of what I choose. My question is this: if you had the 50K and could spend it on a boat but also were not the richest sucker in town, what would you do? It would be nice to save the 15K and get the SX and add a perfect pass (Jimmy, the service manager at Marine Products says he'll look at Cyclone's install and see if he can improve on it any), but there are certainly trade offs. I loved my SX and am quite confused about what to do now.

Also, If you were going to get another brand of boat for 50K or less what would you get?

Thanks for any input you have. I'll soon post pics of my drowned SX and we can all mourn together.

[blindside]

Man, I'm really glad to hear that everyone is SAFE.  Sounds like a very scary experience.

I am surprised the motor is seized up unless someone tryied to start the boat after pulling it out of the water and not 1st getting all of the water out of the block.

Oh, and if I could afford a 50K boat I'd still get a SX22
I have friends with every kind of boat and they all have thier flaws.  Except maybe the new X-2 but I don't think that can be had for 50K

[cyclone]

Man, sorry to hear about that, it is a tragedy. Glad it was only a boat lost and not people.

I have considered trading my Epic22 several times. An internal  ballast, PP, and a peakier wake. Heres what I almost bought, new boats:

2004 SSV maxed out with everything including another 3k in options that I could pick up for 40K out the door with trailer

Not built nearly as well as a Toy, crappy gas mileage

X2, 43k without trailer. Nicely built boat (old Xstar) but no cooler and crappy gas mileage.

Spending another 20$ out of pocket for gas each time I fill up is going to inpact how often I go wakeboarding. I'm not that much of a cheapskate but that directly impacts the bottom line.

If I had a check for 35K I would be thinking things through again, it would be a difficult choice. It sounds like you have the perfect Toyota available if you decide to go that way.

[krejciman]

that totally sucks....  to some extent

You could have never sold your boat for 34K, so it's not like financially you are out....  but the experience will probably scar you and your kids for life.  I know how Powell can be, and it can get scary.  I've had to put everyone in the rear of the boat and take the waves head-on at 15-20 mph for an hour  or so to get back to the marina.  I think they've been moving the marina/docks so often, that the anchors are not really set that well....  assuming that you are talking about Wahweap.

If I was in your shoes I think I'd buy a different boat, just out of interest of resale.  BUT, then again, you can pick up a nice SX for 25K and you'd be getting a VERY nice boat for 10K less than any other.

Sorry to hear about your boat, but atleast the family is safe.

[phenom_1819]

Wow.  Sooo glad to hear y'all are safe.  I've never heard of anything like that happening -- that's horrible.  

As to whether you should get another Epic of have impure thoughts and go for something else, I've been in and behind most everything out there, and can tell you that if I was to buy a new boat and had $35k laying around, I would definitely be looking at other boats too. Can't say whether I'd get the Epic or the other, but I would at least look.  I guess it all depends on what is important to you when you're on the water.  Is it gas mileage?  Space?  Ride quality?  Wake?

If I had $34k - $50k, the boats I would look at would be the entire Supra line (they really make a nice boat -- I want the new 23' Supra...looks like it's right around $50k, but you'd need a new truck to pull it).  The Supra's are a top-quality boat and throw a nice wake (very comparable to my X22).  The 21' v-drive I've been in and behind doesn't have the best ride quality, but then again, very comparable to our Epics.  Gas isn't as good, of course, but better than the other boat I'd look at...

The Tige 22V.  A couple good friends of mine (Porter and Captain Freedom on wakeworld) have a 22V with over 2000 lbs of ballast plumbed in.  This is my FAVORITE boat to ride behind of all time.  The wake has the same rampy transition that our Epics do, but it has these very over-exaggerated chines at the rear of the boat that make the wake REALLY poppy.  You hit this wake and just go straight up -- like you would with an X2 or with a Nautique, but with a transition.  I prefer the long transitions versus a steep wake.  The problem with the 22V -- my friends run 12 gallons per hour.   It's a big beamy boat, that again -- you'd probably need a new tow-rig for.

But if you have any specific questions about boats, I'll try and chime in -- I know most of them fairly well.  Wakeworld searches can be a good bet, too...but please don't ask the question "What's the best towboat?" without doing a few searches first (Wakeworld is super annoying because nobody does this...)...  

[cyclone]

That's it! Just post on wakeworld. Here is the subject line

"Which boat, SAN or XSTAR?"

You will be inundated with unbiased, non-judgemental, reasonable, educated opinions. A plethora of wakeboarding knowledge!

Nothing against wakeworld, but some topics just keep coming back! This one should be retired.

[cyclone]

You would still be COOL if you bought another boat. Not as cool as us though

[2000epic]

IF i couldn't find another Yota  being on a budget, I'd go for a Calabria Cal-Air.  My local dealer had two on the showroom floor.  Both had:  315Hp mercs, Internal ballast (said to fill and empty in seconds not minutes), Perfect pass, heater/shower, tower, ect ect...not to mention a kill color scheme with subdued checkered flag that extends into the upholstry.  All for 36k!!!  Not sure about quality/reputation?  I choose the toyota for the motor.  With all the engine technology available noone but toyota has had the nut$ to put a truly advanced motor in an inboard.  How cool would it be to buy a boat with a HEMI with de-activating cylinders, a 32v mustang cobra motor, or a nissan titan motor?

http://www.calabriaboats.com/

[toyotafreak]

Very sorry about the lss and the scare. Also, I'd be very interested in the 'salvage' of that boat. I want everything drivertrain related to build a new blown motor. I want all your upholstery. I want your trailer. I want your teak, your windshield. Can't remember if you've got a tower, but I want that too.

As far as your options in replacement...just cuz you have that kind of cash available doesn't mean you should be happy about spending it. YOU CAN'T BEAT THE VALUE OF A TOYOTA RIGHT NOW. You sound like a Toyotafreak, too, with the Cruiser, Seq, S22 in the family, etc.

You've got a good dealer nearby. You've had your SX for quite some time and know probably most of the issues you could face in the future (now that you got the swamping experience taken care of ;-)

Go find an E22, X22, S22 or SX. Don't spend more than $25K on a great to perfect one.


Unless you really believe your boat was underpowered or under-waked for your family's needs, STAY YOTA.

As far as resale value, etc., guys don't kid yourselves. These are RVs and depreciate as such. The Epics might suffer more than most, but at this point, you're WAY ahead of the game: you're getting $35K to buy a new $25K Epic.


You've seen the mountain, are you ready to descend into the depths of regularness?

[phenom_1819]

OVER?!?!  Did you say 'over'?  Nothing is over until we decide it is.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?  HELL NO!

And it ain't over now.  Hold for a $25k S22.  Sorry for helping spread the impurities.

[toyotafreak]

1941, right? Sucha great flick, and the airplane chick still gets me going ;-0

There's a ton of cool boats out there. Still think we've got a good thing going, though.


And I'm serious about the salvage.

[cyclone]

Animal House,  Derek. Shame on you! Go watch it five times.

I want the salvage boat too!! Motor musta been running when it went down. Anything sticking through the block?

I think you should buy that SX but give the guy 25-27K in cash because you CAN! It has a ballast system which is what is keeping me from buying an S22. Even if it doesn't work right the tanks are there and it can be fixed.

2000Epic, I have a car with the Cobra motor, and it is not as advanced as the 1UZFE in our boats. Our boats have the same horsepower and torque but smaller displacement and better efficiency than the Cobra motor or the GM Northstar variants. Our boats not only have dual overhead cams but they have oil actuated advance of the camshafts under load. Thats what the VVTI stuff is all about. It's badass. It also is the only Wakeboard boat with an engine FAA certified for light aircraft.

So, we got that goin' for us, which is nice.

[toyotafreak]

If that engine were 'certified' by the FAA for use in production or for-hire aircraft, it'd not be less than $40K. And it'd be selling. On the other hand, I don't doubt that it may be 'certifiable', or authorized for use in experimental aircraft. The 'certified' stamp is anything but cheap.

However comma, around the time of TMS, Toyota designed, built and flew a single-engine piston aircraft. Supposedly, the performance found during flight trials did not meet expectations and they scrubbed the project. I seriuosly doubt that Toyota would use a 1UZ in such a plane (although it'd be a perfect choice) simply because the added risk involved with trying to certify a NEW powerplant along with the NEW airframe. I'm sure they were eyeing the use of the 1UZ, and truthfully, should still be considering it.

[krejciman]

Toyota is (I think) still using the 2GZ motor in their sport planes....  it's the old Corolla GTS engine.

[toyotafreak]

The Firm has done a good job of keeping their aviation pursuits private. Can't find jack about it on the net or on the Company web pages.