Looking for some input

[masonlk]

I'm in Seattle. I finally have the lakefront now I need a boat. I'm old school water-skier. 10 year old son[and friends] will probably be a wakeboarder. I've always liked the Epic's, but which model and year to get? I like the v-drive room but what about the wake? Six more years and then no parts/service from Toyota is also a concern when spending $20-30K. Being here in the northwest corner and far removed from the more knowledgeable/accomodating dealers makes this even more of a concern. $39k for a "new" 2001? I can imagine what they'll charge for service, so...I'm probably on my own unless I haul it to Utah, which is not an option. Great site. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Undecided

[lesman01]

I love my s22 vdrive. Wake is good stock, and with a full boat of people, it meets my needs. V's are rear heavy, and find that i have to put a body or weight in the front to even it up. Seats 10 and there's TONS of storage..

I grew up slolom skiing and made the transition to wakeboarding 2 seasons ago. It's much less taxing on this old body than hard core slolom.

As far as parts/service going forward, it's a crapshoot. If you spend a few hours looking through these very archives, you;ll see that the majority of opinions is that parts are stockpiled somewhere and should not be an issue.

TMS has recently opened up their documentation and much of it is on this site. There are lots of smart people on this board who do all their own service. Lot's of how-to docs in the maintenance section as well.

So, unless we all bail some day, there's a great knowledgebase here for the epics...Pete(cyclone), toyotafreak, gr8dna, Bitzco(for entertainment), and many others.


Good luck in your search.

Now i'll let the pros chime in....

[toyotafreak]

While we're stillwaiting for the pros...I'd never buy that 'new' boat up there (well maybe if I won the lotto just because I love that it's got the wet floor tanks). If I was in the market, I'd definitely look at the used boats out there. Right now you'll find more on sale than we have seen at any one time in the past three years. Don't know if that's trend or what, but I'd look though them because there's some deals to be had. Before you do that, hook up with our PACNORWEST chapter for a demo - I'm sure every one of them would step up and take you out for a ride. The boat's not for everyone, but I love mine, am basically committed to it for life, and am ready to take on whatever issues arise.

If you're in SoCal every, send me a shout - I'll take you out WHENEVER.

[epic_toy]

I think I'm in the PacNorwest chapter, but I'm not a pro either. I've got an E21 and ski mainly, but we also wakeboard and even some surfing. It is an AWSA approved wake but it seems to work great for other needs. I have it up in Kenmore on Lake washington usually April - Sept, and would be happy to give you a ride anytime.

SkiMasters in Kenmore used to sell the Epics and I still see them in there for repair work / winterizing. They've got the 'new' boat that we all know well. Can't speak for the their capabilities with Toyotas since nothing has EVER gone wrong with my engine. Last time I was there picking up a fuel filter one of the mechanics said, "I hate working on these Toyotas because everything is harder to get to, fortunately I never have to because nothing goes wrong with them." That made me feel pretty good.

If you go with one, you're definitely better off than any other used boat out there IMO. And based on what we hear around the forum, parts for the m1uz will be available.

[Rambling Wreck]

Breakawaydaze needs to step in here regarding the wakes. He had an E21 that he never used (so I bought it from him) and now he has a V drive that he never uses!

Whichever Epic you choose, you will like it. The initial cost is just one part of the total cost of ownership. These boats run forever between major service issues (not that I have heard of anyone with a major service issue) and use less gas than any other comparable boat. On top of that, any other new boat will most likely depreciate more than you will spend on one of these between the dealership and the water. If you want to consider a used one, the folks on this website have probably taken more of an interest in their boats than the average owner which should be a positive indicator.

My E21 is supposed to have a much better wake for skiing than for wakeboarding but my 14 yr old son has never complained when he wakeboards. He has mentioned that the wake is better when we load the boat with human fat sacks so an investment in some real fat sacks might be something to consider. Of course, I could ship a few relatives out your way to help us both out!

[masonlk]

Gentlemen, Thank you for the replies. All of what you have to say pretty much confirms the thoughts I've had concerning the Epic's. Jeremy at Marine Products also thinks there will be parts around for quite awhile. Speaking of Jeremy...who snuck in and bought the primo yellow/blue SX while I was on vacation? If I don't aquire one before you drop yours in the water epic-toy I might give you a shout since it wouldn't include an airline ticket. If you ever head to Mason Lake give me a heads up and I'll tell you where to find us. Wreck, I appreciate the offer but I've already got enough trouble keeping food an the table, the 10 and 17 year old eat like horses{draft at that}. My main concern right now is transportation, as most of the boats for sale seem to be a fairly good distance from this neck of the woods. Anyone looking for a driving vacation from Wi. to Wa. in March?

[Lakeside]

Tempting.... my sister lives in Seattle, but this is the busy season at work.

[toyotafreak]

Hey, I did LA to Dallas and back in 73 hours to inspect, test drive and return my 140-hour perfect specimin S22. Definitely don't recommend following a full work day with an LA to Dallas trip without sleep. Makes a good story, and I've got a new appreciation for TX by getting to El Paso and realizing I was only half way.

Moral of the story is, if you've found a great boat, don't let a few days of discomfort disuade you.

[breakawaydaze]

Do not buy an Epic if you are looking for the latest fad, craze, pimp out or tribal paint job!  If you want a relationship with a boat that is unique, reliable, solid and efficient with durability and "intelligent attitude" get an Epic and never look back!  The engines are rock solid reliable and everything else is pretty much "off the shelf" (the top shelf) as far a components.  The only thing I really worry about is the gauge head unit (a little touchy).  If you get an E21 you don't even have to worry about that!  I think my starter will last forever, I have never even heard it!  You just turn the key and the engine simultaneously starts, every single time!  This is my second Epic, a 2002 S22 v-drive and I love it almost as much as my 1st, now Wrecks 1999 E21 direct drive.  The boats are great, the forum is full of knowledgeable, helpful, no B/S folks that truly enjoy helping each other.  Sure, occasionally folks on the forum sell for whatever reason, but I think anyone who has ever sold their Epic has experienced  "Sellers Remorse".  I know I did when I sold the 1st one, and I am sure I will if I ever sell this one.  Just my .02

[breakawaydaze]

Man, I forgot to mention the wake!  The E21 is a great ski boat!  The wake is wide and flat at slalom speeds with a  super smooth table, whether you are pounding the course or just goofing around, your always improving your style not fighting the turbulence!  (the E21 will spoil a slalom skier, it's hard to ski that well behind anything else) The real beauty of the E21 is the wake at wakeboard speeds. It is a great intermediate wakeboard wake without any ballast.  Throw some folks or fat sacks in the back an your up for some intermediate or advanced fun.  The S22 v-drive is somewhat opposite, a stronger wakeboarders boat that doubles as a pretty good slalom skier boat.  Either boat properly equipped will not disappoint!  They are both dual personalities, you just need to decide the configuration that is right for you.

[masonlk]

What we're looking for is our "last" boat. We've decided to spend some time looking for an Epic, now it's a matter of finding the right deal at the right time in the right place. Then I can truly be undecided. I know I know...picky, picky, picky. But hey it'll be forever! The reliability factor is at the top of the list along with the fuel consumption. We'll spend 99.9% of our time at a lake that is a bit out of the way. 2hrs and a ferry ride from the nearest dealer. Plus the ramp is at the other end of the lake so, once it's in the water, it's in for the summer. Thanks for the replies, you've just reconfirmed all of our thoughts.

[cyclone]

I've been to the dealer twice in six years. Once to put the tower on, another time to get my seats fixed and whatever little crap I could get fixed before the warrantee ran out. They didn't fix my seats, which fell apart in the first 18 months, and there wasn't much else to fix, non-skid on the trailer, some access covers that disappeared during tower install, a couple of broken plastic parts. The dealer offered to buy me skins for the seats, but I didn't take him up on it because I figured Toyota should step up. No big deal, I had them redone this year, and had them stitch them differently so they wouldn't come apart.

Any decent mechanic can do the routine maintenance on these boats, I've done all of mine myself and I'm at 735 hrs or so. I'll probably do the timing belt myself at 1k hrs when it's time. I'll do the third set of plugs and the fifth oil change then too:)