Who uses synthetic fluids?

[eagle1wi]

Psullivan,

I agree doing the changes often.

The Ford 302's I think came out in the 60's and were certainly designed for dino oil.

If our engine manufacturer says synthetic for these DOHC VVTI motors which have WAY more moving parts than a pushrod variant - I will take the advice.

Toyota had oil gelling problems in the Camry/Solara 3.0's and it seemed to be avoided by using syntetic oil because it wouldn't sludge up (or cook in the heads) as easily.  The synthetic apparantly could take the heat and wouldn't break down.  Of course those that used Dino oil and did it often pretty much never had a problem according to the Yota spin doctors but some customers that were following the manual still had issues. 

For my Solara V6 it got synthetic every time, it seemed like cheap insurance.

I think it depends on the motor

[PSullivan3]

The way I look at it is when more 2 manufactures start using synthetic as a break in oil I might have to change my way of thinking.With all the moving parts why don't they(manufactures) ship the car with synthetic as break-in oil? Are they apprehensive of what could happen? I don't know either but I'm sure there is a reason,because I'm sure the synthetic salesmen have tried that sale,and walked away empty.Also I have seen nor heard anybody say if you use synthetic over oil your engine will last "x" longer,and probably never will.Again everbody entitled to their opinion, and I'm not an easy sale.But good old oil is still in the engine straight out of the factory.

[Capt Rick]

The sludge was caused by no oil changes every 5000 miles some never changed the oil . They thought that the Luxury cars do not need it......But some engine would sludge based on the PCV and head drain configuration. Again if oil changes were not done. The engine woul not sludge.  So, If you change your oil every 5000 miles or 200 hours on marine engine your ok.
I ran the Epic Marine 1-UZ 300 hp engine without water and oil for over 15 minutes and it didn't fail....... But it will crack the cylinder block if you don't winterize it...and the exhaust Manifolds may crack after 800 hours... So that is what I would be concerned about.

[PSullivan3]

Hey Capt.Rick, does toyota say to switch to synthetic at any point

[westtx]

Ditto on Capt. Rick's comments. We have never seen a sludged engine where the customer could produce legit oil change records. Most went 20K miles + before they started smoking.

[wakejunky]

As for the 3.0 Camry,Solara,Avalon,Sienna sludge issue, it was due to lack of oil changes like has been said. But, the problem came when a customer said "yeah i didn't change it as often as I was suppose to, but my ford,Chevy,dodge, etc didn't sludge and it was maintained the same". Why you ask?

When Toyota was designing the engine they were trying to meet a certain emissions level such as ULEV(ultra low emission vehicle), SULEV, PZEV,etc", in order to meet that level they moved the water jackets further away from the cylinders, which let the engine run a little hotter and it reduced the amount of fuel condensation on the cylinder walls which in turn lowered emissions. FYI-fuel must be in vapor form to burn. if fuel vapor going in to the combustion chamber comes in contact with a cool cylinder wall it will condense back into a liquid, just like a glass of water or a soda can. the liquid doesn't burn and it goes out the tailpipe and raises emission levels. The hotter running engine would break down oil sooner then you average engine would and it would cause sludge buildup.

When I was still at Toyota I had an Avalon customer who drove 40,000 miles without an oil change. The oil had literally crystallized in some areas. when asked why she didn't change her oil she said the sales person told her to change it every 30,000 miles (just a little off) and she didn't see what the big deal was to wait until 40,000. Nevertheless Toyota covered the engine under warranty with absolutely no proof of maintenace. this is why Toyota has been covering these neglected engines well after the warranty period and with very little to no evidence of maintenance. then the problem was compounded when those cars had been leased( an even better reason not to maintain your car)and were being returned to the dealerships which in turn sold them as certified used cars. the new owners are usually THRILLED to find out there certified car was so poorly maintained. so again another reason Toyota stepped up and took care of these specific engines.

Your epic engine is not one of these engines. So maintain it. the maintenace guide says to run synthetic after 200 hours. I only have to change it once a season about 90 hours so why not put the good stuff in it.

[Capt Rick]

yes It is recommended synthetic after 200 hours

[DENNIS]

Capt. Rick,

You mention that the exhaust manifolds are good for approx. 800 hours and then crack.  Are the manifolds engine specific, and do you suggest we buy spares before they are no longer available.  What is the part #'s and prices?

Dennis

[toyotafreak]

You're right, that's total, not additional. But if you're out at the .99 store hunting for supplies on sale, that's what, $8 for a Fram filter and Penzoil times 30 changes equals $240. The M1 treatment is actually $1380 (at $5/qt), for an additional of $1140 over ten years or so.

I had heard/read about the taxi test, and will add that they tried Slick 50, etc. too and found no additional benefit. I agree that itsounded like a very well done test and agree that it didn't make any difference on term cars over some BIG intervals.

Just ask yourself this...do you really believe that cheap dino oil lubricates as well as synthetic? Despite the tests, etc., when you compare heat tolerance and some of them other specs, you've just got to know one is better. The question should be how much better, in what ways, and what that difference is worth to you.

As for 64 of our 72 valves, it's M1. Castrol and Pure One for the pickup.

[PSullivan3]

Synthetics
Despite their name, most synthetic derived motor oils (ie Mobil 1, Castrol Formula RS etc ) are actually derived from mineral oils - they are mostly Polyalphaolifins and these come from the purest part of the mineral oil refraction process, the gas. PAO oils will mix with normal mineral oils which means Joe public can add synthetic to his mineral, or mineral to his synthetic without his car engine seizing up. The most stable bases are polyol-ester (not polyester, you fool). When I say 'stable' I mean 'less likely to react adversely with other compounds.' Synthetic oil bases tend not to contain reactive carbon atoms for this reason. Reactive carbon has a tendency to combine with oxygen creating an acid. As you can imagine, in an oil, this would be A Bad Thing. So think of synthetic oils as custom-built oils. They're designed to do the job efficiently but without any of the excess baggage that can accompany mineral based oils.

A quick guide to the different grades of oil.
Fully Synthetic Characteristics
0W-30
0W-40
5W-40 Fuel economy savings
Enhances engine performance and power
Ensures engine is protected from wear and deposit build-up
Ensures good cold starting and quick circulation in freezing temperatures
Gets to moving parts of the engine quickly
Semi-synthetic Characteristics
5W-30
10W-40
15W-40 Better protection
Good protection within the first 10 minutes after starting out
Roughly three times better at reducing engine wear
Increased oil change intervals - don't need to change it quite so often
Mineral Characteristics
10W-40
15W-40 Basic protection for a variety of engines
Oil needs to be changed more 
What about own-brands?
If you can't afford the big-name players, you could look at own-brand oils. These are usually badged oils from one of the larger companies but sold without the name, they are cheaper. Check the standards and grade ratings on the pack first
I guess at 200hrs I'll be switching. Info from /www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html#return

[Capt Rick]

$748 each ouch 1710450130   Manifold,Exhaust,SS,Starboard
1710550130   Manifold,Exhaust,SS,Port

When a manifold fails there will be water in the cylinder-s. Since it is fresh water a simple parts replacement and engine flush would do. There are plenty of manifolds in stock. So if you change the spark plugs every year I think this will prevent the manifolds from failing from miss-firing.

[toyotafreak]

Thanks guys. Good info fo sho.

Capt., glad to hear about the quantity in stock, care to quote a number?

Pete will be switching over to them pimped out Aussie headers...