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May 06, 2025, 21:23:54 pm

Author Topic: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts  (Read 2055 times)

EB

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I am considering buying a v drive epic.  I love everything I've read about the boat, and the reliability of a Lexus engine combined with the improved fuel economy I've heard about.  I'm hoping some of you epic owners can help guide me.  Here are my questions:

-I'm told the boat still has warranty on it.  Who does warrantee work if there are no dealers left?
-How much better is the fuel economy versus a traditional 8 cylinder v drive like a mastercraft
-How is the wake on the v drive with no ballast
-How long does it take to get parts when you need them
-is it tough to find someone to service the boat

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

Warm regards

Eddie

eagle1wi

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 17:59:11 pm »
I will take a stab at a couple of these and quote some older posts.  Do some searching on this site and you will find MUCH more.

There are still authorized service centers even though there aren't dealers anymore.

Parts - depends on what you need, service parts you can get almost anywhere, online, BassPro, West Marine, local shops.  If you are in an area without a service center you will have to mail order Toyota Specific parts from Capt Rick.

Epic vs Mastercraft, I estimate at least DOUBLE the fuel efficiency.  My buddy has a Malibu (similar engine options to MC) and he will empty a tank before I even get close to half.  It is probably more like 60% more efficient which is staggering especially now that gas is over $3.  Read: I get a $40 day and he is spending at least $80 - that adds up especially if you will use it a lot.


Things I have learned from owning my 1999 E21:

1) The 4 Liter motor always starts and runs smooth - Lexus/Toyota Reliability

2) Quiet at idle speeds - you can easily talk over it (remember mine is in the center of the boat)

3) People want to check it out all the time because most have never seen one - even the boat patrol wanted to see the engine

4) Probably won't need a rebuild for decades (I have 700+ hours so far)

5) It's built well, even had a competing dealer (across our lake) that winterizes my boat admits that it is more solid than boats he sold.

6) Gas prices will probably go up even farther - that 500/yr difference may turn into 7,8 or 9 hundred before you consider selling, with the hours I put on I capture more of the fuel advantage than you might.  When I bought mine fuel was about $1.50/gal

7) It doesn't seem to dirty oil at all, I usually change it when it is still golden




Do you have a Malibu or Mastercraft dealer in your area?

Chances are if they have a clue they will be able to service your boat no problem.  The normal maintenance items are typically the same ones they already have or ones you can buy online and give to them to do things like winterizing. 

For instance I give it to my local dealer (much closer than the official Toyota one) and he already has or can get his hands on the impeller, oil filter and fuel filter to winterize it.  Mine is the only Toyota he has ever worked on and he was hesitant to work on it as first.  Once he saw it I think he was very intrigued.  He told me that I might have to hunt the parts down for him but he called back a couple of days later and told me that it was no problem.  I guess he found out that many of the mainteance items are not specific to our boats. Johnson Impeller, Mercruiser Fuel Filter etc.


Epic 21 - Red

PSullivan3

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 19:54:07 pm »
I brought an S22 in May. I love my boat everything about it, how smooth it runs ,the fuel economy the finish,and how tight every thing is on the finishes. My neighbors Have a SAN and a Calabria on long days their fueling up the next morning on their way out( complainingabout gas)? I fuel up the 3rd or 4th day I'm on the lake first every time.So better fuel economy = more time on the lake.I am putting a ballast system over the winter the wake work s well for now with throwing a few bags in it.The great web site these guys made up here if you know the right end of the wrench you can save yourself some money and learn about your boat and its like you have expert advice at your finger tips 24/7.I was a little apprehensive when I was buying, but I got a great boat at good price that I can afford to run all the time.I would do it again in a heart beat.My .02.

cyclone

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 21:33:24 pm »
Name one other manufacturer for which you can buy all parts directly from the internet. And, the awesome tech support community and documentation available here is not available on any other fan or manufacturer website.

The boats are easy to maintain, there isn't much to go wrong, and as a community we've seen all or certainly most of the stuff that can go wrong. I haven't had a problem with my boat that I couldn't fix myself.

Gas useage is 60-70% better than any other boat. Case in point, a new Supra 21V, 7-GPH loaded up. My boat, 2-4 GPH loaded up. Granted, it's not brand new and the Supra throws a bigger wake, but mine is PLENTY big and has a great transition, shape and lip. I love my wake. I hate Nautique wakes, but that's me.

I say go for it, the boats are relatively cheap and a great bargain when you consider the level of quality and the efficiency.
Pete

'01 Epic SX

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 00:32:33 am »
I bought an Epic 22 in April and have put over 50 hours on it already. My local boat dealer has done most of the maintenance and upgrades, and all of the maintenance parts (other than the timing belt) are standard marine parts they can get from their wholesalers. TMS has promised to stock parts until at least 2012, and I imagine most parts will be available for longer than that.

I work for a Toyota distributor, and I can tell you than anytime Toyota builds 600 of anything it will be a huge collector's item -- based on my struggles to buy a V-drive, it already is. Problem is, I "settled" for a low-hour direct drive and I love it. No problems - zero.

When you read the posts on this site, your perception may be skewed by the very few boats that are experiencing some temporary minor issues, but most of us run our boats several times a month and have no issues. They get great fuel economy, run cool all day long, and sound better than any inboard boat I have ever been in. Buy it...you'll love it!
Scott

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 17:01:48 pm »
On the fuel economy issue. I was just at Powell with Javman, Fest, a Tige, soem old v-8 thing and a big old fishing boat. At the end of the day, typical fuel results were something like
Bitzco's Epic SX 25 gallons
Javman's brand spankin new Malibu v-ride (about the same size as SX) 31 gallons.
Big old fishing boat about 32 gallons
v- 8 whatever it was about 32 gallons
Fest's amazing Malibu 247 46 gallons

These numbers are with all the boats full of people, towing boarders, tubers, air chair, etc. Also cruising around the lake at about 30 mph. Fest often had at least part of his ballast filled.

So, really I think we are looking at 20-25% better mileage with the SX than with pretty comparably sized boats. About 45% better mileage than the big behemoths like Fests 247. Keep in mind that the SX is heavier and has a different drive ratio than the other Toyotas, so it doesn't get as good of mileage. A direct drive X-22 would do a lot better than my SX did gas wise.

Even at 20-25% better, my gas costs for a full day of running around were about 20 bucks less.
03 Pilot, 01 Epic SX, 330 cc bombers and 4 kids in back. Working to retire to a lakeside cottage with my own boat dock.

festivus

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2006, 17:40:14 pm »
in defense of my gas tabs--- they suck
1982 Bayliner 175 Cuddy 125 Foh-rce ob
1982 Reliant K- light sky blue
1988 Ford Taurus- deep gold

woody26

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2006, 20:12:05 pm »
Hi, I'm new here. At the moment I own a 04 Malibu VLX and an going to be looking to get rid of soon. I just don't use the boat enough to justify a 45k boat. I love to wakeboard and and want to get a boat that costs around 22 to 25k. My only real concern about the epic's is the wake, don't get me wrong I'm no pro I'm only working on a wake to wake with a grab. How does the wake compare to the 04 VLX's wake? Also how much weight do you have to use? I have to use about 1000 - 1500 to get a good wake out of my bu.

Oh, and this is a awesome site.

Thanks,
Brian

breakawaydaze

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2006, 14:27:56 pm »
I have bought two used Epics in the last 4 years.  Neither one needed much, and I never had trouble finding the parts.  With this sight, I doubt I will ever have any problems fixing just about anything myself.  Most of the nautical parts are common and off the shelf.  Mechanical engine parts are rarely needed, but are easily obtained.  The transmissions are pretty much bullet proof, and I have never heard of a failed un-repairable Epic. (unless it sunk!)  The boats are super reliable, very responsive and very fuel efficient.  I have had a lot of different boats in my past, and always wanted an Epic since they first came out.  Never could afford one new.  Now I think I will have this boat for life.  If you appreciate quality, there is no better.  just my opinion.

Breakawaydaze

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2006, 17:37:16 pm »
Regarding the wake...for three years I rode a too-small, continuous rocker, low-end 2000 Liquid Force. To pop, I really needed to edge and build a lot of tension. With that board, I didn't really like to ride behind my S22 without ballast (assuming small crew). A decent crew and a 800 pounds ballast was nice, but I really liked 1500 pounds (two big bags plus a little extra) when running with just a couple adults. That's a really nice, clean wake that is kind enough to let you (some would say force you) load the line hard and remain in control up and throught the wake. Behind the Super Air or the Centurion Avalanche, I found the wake to be so abrupt that I couldn't (didn't need to) load the edge so much. There's a thread on wakeworld right now discussing the SAN wake that seems right on IMHO. I for one am used to and like a more gentle transition from edge to air.

I did finally get a new board, a right-sized CWB Flame 141. Flames are supposed to always be last-year's Absolute. All I know is that this board is really wide, and because it's also longer, there's a ton more surface area. It's also got a three-stage rocker, and there's a lot more total rocker than what I'm used to. All things together, the board reminds me much more of a 2005 Parks that what I'm used to (read: if you load the line and edge through the wake, you're gonna friggin launch). With the added pop this board gives, I actually had a couple fun sets behind my boat with a small crew and no ballast. I'm not talking just riding switch and sliding, ollies etc., but big jumps high and into the flats. I did end up using the single big bag, but never wanted to use my usual two-bag setup.

Regarding fuel economy, I can imagine that a newer 5.7L will do better than the older engines used to make the "61% better" claim. GPH is really a tough measuring stick. How much weight, cruising speed, no-wake time, etc. are the easy ones, but also how long your riders average between falls, how much you hot-rod, are you a POWER TURNER, etc. probably make big differences, yeah? This is why posts like Bitzy's are so important - side by side, how do boats compare? A SAN owner know seems to run between 5 and 6 GPH, but he does run more weight (not pro-weight, but more than I). Our Centurion buddy we roll side-by-side with seems to burn between 'a little' and 'a lot' more than we do. Like Bitzy noted, he's got different gearing, so he'd probably get better mileage than us if we were both really sacked out (quicker time to plane), but for the most part, he's going to be turning a lot more RPMs than us (I'm just under 3,000 rpm while towing). Doubt his boat would've turned 3.3 GPH during our recent Havasu trip considering all the higher-speed cruising we did (although one of the runs had 11 people in the boat).

Don't buy your Epic just because of fuel economy. Don't buy it if you see boats as commodities. Don't buy it if you're into bling, because towboats have come a LONG way in terms of flashiness in the past six years (compare 2000 and 2006 X-Stars, for instance). If you're down with CLEEEEEEAN, classic lines, and basically just 'class' in general (comfortable seating, quiet drivetrain, clean layout, etc.) go with either a Natique or an Epic. IMHO, except for the SAN's renowned wake, strong resale, heritage and brand, and the fact that they're smaller, the comparison between SAN and S22 or SX boats are closer than some might think. Classic lines, very well-built and not so much bling to get in the way. I've heard that the newer MCs especially and the BUs too have caught up in terms of fit and finish, but the Epics were and are just top shelf when it comes to how the cushions fit and remove, how every space is carpeted, how the storage is smart (if not 247-ish, Fest - we can't hide many bodies under our seats), how the engine shifts and the steering feels.

FIND SOMEONE TO RIDE WITH!!! Spend a full day out there, hopefully with someone who knows what they're doing with the wake, etc. Hopefully NOT the guy you're gonna buy the boat from.
Derek Boyer
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2000 Epic S22
Powered by Lexus, Fueled by Chevron, Lubricated by Mobil 1 ... DNA by Toyota

brad

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2006, 19:55:03 pm »
I towed a wakeboarder last week who frequently rides with buddies who are pro wakeboarders.  He was very impressed with the Epic SX wake and said it was better than MC xstar.  I pulled him with the 700 factory ballast plus 3 adults; I added 800 lbs with my portable fat sacks plus 7 adults on another run which gave him the "pro" wake.

That was his 2 cents on the wake.

He even asked if I'd be interested in selling my SX.  Which I quickly declined since I'm keeping the SX for life.
Brad

2002 Epic SX

woody26

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2006, 22:49:30 pm »
So would you say the epic's have a rampy wake like my boat or a steep wake like a SAN.

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 00:12:15 am »
I've never ridden behind a VLX or any Master Craft. It's definitely NOT a SAN.
Derek Boyer
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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2006, 21:30:34 pm »
definitely rampy.
03 Pilot, 01 Epic SX, 330 cc bombers and 4 kids in back. Working to retire to a lakeside cottage with my own boat dock.

woody26

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Re: Considering buying, but afraid of difficulties with service / parts
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2006, 22:40:58 pm »
Thanks,everybody.