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May 04, 2025, 17:24:30 pm

Author Topic: D-Drive Ballast  (Read 2543 times)

blindside

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D-Drive Ballast
« on: March 07, 2005, 20:27:58 pm »
Ok, so I want more ballast in my X22 but I don't want it taking up floor/walk space.  The only reason I would want to move to a V-drive (and it would be a Toyota) would be for the ability to have more ballast without taking up floor space.  I currently use a 1500lb fat seat in the back, 550lb factory sac in the truck, and a 600 lbs sack in the nose walkway.  If there was anyway I could incorporate all of this weight into the boat, aka internal ballast, I would keep this boat as long as I live.  So that is my mission.

I could probably fit a 1000 lb sac in the truck but I do not like the shape of the wake or how the boat drives when all of the weight is in the truck.  So what I am thinking is this.  I can't place a large built-in ballast where the rear seat goes because then you would not be able to lift the engine cover back on its hinges.  So here is a picture of what I am thinking for the rear.  Design a custom ballast tank made out of aluminum wrapped in matching carpen that can be removed (incase of service needs) and then custom made cushions to go on the top of it.  This would allow greater seating room allong with more ballast and a nice fit and finish.  I would also than plumb two fat sacs under the front seats/front of dash and hooked together via the access under the nose cushion.  What are your thoughts?
Brent
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phenom_1819

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2005, 21:47:48 pm »
I've spent many hours pondering the same thing.  Unfortunately, the d-drives just don't have that much hidden space.  In the bow, there is too little space to run tube sacks or anything like that.  Even if you did just fill them partway until they had no more space, my guess is it wouldn't be more than about 150 lbs and probably not worth the effort.

Like Derek has wondered, I want to know what is beneath the floor in the X22.  On the outsides of the stringers and in-between the stringers in the bow.  My guess is it's wide open (I'm sure it is in the bow), and if you made sacks long and skinny enough, it would be a lot of weight that would be pretty well distributed.  I'm sure there's room for about 200lbs+ under the bow carpet, and if the sides were hollow, probably room for about 600 lbs on either side (assuming you can get a sack long enough to use all the space.  Combined with the rear sack (isn't it 70 gallons? I think that's over 600lbs...), that'd be right about 2000 lbs completely out of sight.  That'd be friggin' sweet...
Cal
Yakima, WA
Previous owner of 2001 Toyota Epic X22

wakejunky

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2005, 23:00:02 pm »
 Hey guys thought I'd answer a few questions I found while installing my new ballast system. there is a space under the front carpet. we have all seen the? 5 inch hole in front of the bilge pump. this hole continues for about a foot and then opens up to a pretty good space not huge, but maybe 2 hundred pounds worth. unfortunatly Toyota decided to shoot 2 inch screws under the carpeted area's fiberglass. and they protrude into that nice area. they will puncture any bag you put in there. On the outside of the stringers would be a nice area but it is filled with flotation foam. Sorry about the bad news.
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phenom_1819

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 00:02:45 am »
I knew that, darn it. Pete told me about the flotation foam -- I just forgot.  Still, there's gotta be something to do about those screws, like cutting the ends off then covering them with epoxy or something like that.  I'm sure with a bigger bag you could get another 200 lbs in the trunk.  The other ballast idea I had was to run skinny bags up the sides, in the side storage compartments.  On the passenger side, it's wide open the entire way.  On the drivers side, its open from the back of the drivers seat to the rear of the boat.   I don't know if that would be bad for stress though.  Then you could drop a cube where the heater is supposed to be. You could probably put an 8" diameter bag and run it the whole way and get about 400-500 lbs on each side.  If that worked, it would probably be about 1900 lbs with bow and trunk ballast added??

I just bring people.  When I don't have people, two side sacks (all the way forward) and some extra bow weight (150-200 lbs or so) does the trick. for me.  But that's most of my floor space.
Cal
Yakima, WA
Previous owner of 2001 Toyota Epic X22

toyotafreak

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2005, 06:17:13 am »
Hey, I wish you guys would just chill for a couple friggin days on the ballast thing. I pretty much finished my souped-up ballast calculator spreadsheet this weekend. Got instructions finished today, so probably tomorrow I email it to Mr. Cyclone for posting. It's pimp, that's all I can say.

Might not exactly help with this thread's questions, but it'll keep you busy for a while.


For starters, you need to put the 1000-pound Fluid Concepts bag in the trunk. Get over that. Put your back seats back in and enjoy their cushiness.

For the bow, either you place a Big Bump in the walkway like I do (you'd have a pretty clean 1700 pounds), or you get a slightly smaller deicated bow sac like Launch Pad's 440-pounder and then have a custom triangle sac made to take the place of the bow cushions and lay over the walkway sac. I'm thinking like 8" deep so you can still use it as an open bow. That'll add around 420 pounds. The only loose end there would be how to handle the open spaces in the bow where the cushions used to sit - you could either cut a nice sheet of like 1/2" nylon -OR- you go ahead and fill the three compartments with a special U-shaped sac. Not only might it add a couple hundred pounds, it'd support the triangle sac above it.

Call that setup an evenly-distributed 2K.

Final option would be to replace the rear cushions with a bag similar to the Fly High Rear Seat Bottom Sac. It's 26" deep, 62" wide and 12" deep. I'm not sure what it looks like under them cusions, but assuming it's like floor there, this pad or a custom one like it could be made to occupy the same space as the cushions it replaces. The Fly High I metioned is rated at 680 pounds, but I'd say to just replace the seat - don't go higher or deeper. This'll give you back the space you lost to the Sofa, and still add several hundred.

If you were willing to just get nasty, there's a triangle bow sac ready to go that's rated at 1K. Have a custom sac for under it in the walkway, and the u-shaped one, and you'd be pushing 1500 in the bow. Add a Sofa to the FC 1K pounder in the trunk and you'd be right at 4000. Now that'd be a manly wake. Might want to turn something like a 13x10 prop, but it'd do it.

The main bummer with the Bump in the walkway is that you lose access to the cubby: "does anybody need anything out of here?" Then you seal it up for the day with 700 pounds of water. with a Fat Buddy or other short sac in the walkway, you can keep the cubby useable. Add the u-shaped sac to that and then lay over the custom cushion-thick (6 to 8") triangle sac, and you've got a nice 800 or so pounds with a perfectly useable bow seating area and cubby. I'm sure there'd be an easy way to speed filling and draining the three layered bow sacs, and the one in the trunk would be super easy. A custom rear bench seat replacement would be super easy and could be done pretty cleanly so as not to take up any more space than the stock rear seat.

Better buy in to a sac mfr. and decide how many RPMs you're willing to cruise at around 22 mph. 4,000 might be a good start.
Derek Boyer
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2000 Epic S22
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blindside

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2005, 16:02:01 pm »
Did you guys notice my newly redesigned rear seats on the top picture? I figure I can get 500 lbs under there :) I'm thinking an aluminum tank that has 2 sides, a left and a right.  That way I can balance weight in the boat using the two sided tank.  I will be building one this summer for sure.

I heard lead pipes where the best way to go as for putting weight in the side compartments.? Use short 1-2 foot pipes approx 75 lbs each that you can move around if you need to.? so 3 of those on each side = 225 lbs x 2 = 450 lbs in the sides of the boat.

So

? 1000 (trunk)
    500 (under rear seats)
? ? 450 (sides lead pipes)
? ? 600 (nose walkway)
+? 200 (under front seats lead)
-------------------------------------
 2750 lbs total and very well distributed

The only weight not hidden would be the 600 in the nose walkway.?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 16:05:50 pm by blindside »
Brent
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phenom_1819

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2005, 17:28:31 pm »
Derek, I'll chill.  Brent, I thought your drawing was hella pimp. ;)

But I think a good alternative is to use a bigger bag in the trunk, because I think that adding a couple hundred pounds to the trunk would be like adding 4-500 or so to the rear seat area because of the overhang.  As long as you put enough bow weight to counter it, that's the easiest way to go.  I think your back seat would be friggin' rad, though!   Ya-aya!  WHAT!  O-kaiye!
Cal
Yakima, WA
Previous owner of 2001 Toyota Epic X22

toyotafreak

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Re: D-Drive Ballast
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2005, 18:43:58 pm »
Yeah, you're right, I missed the image. Pretty cool.

I'm gonna ditto Cal and say fill the trunk. Either the FC 1000-pounder, or even a custom sack that would hold about 1500 if your trunk's as big as mine and you filled it.

Then in the bow, do a permanent redo of the bow seating area. Turn the underseat and walkway into a single tank. Might get between like 500 and 800 up there, not sure. And that's with real cushions on top. If you wanted to step that up, you could have the custom 6 to 8" triangle sack made to be your own little waterbed cushion on top of the tank for another 200 to 300 pounds. For the real nasty days you could replace the thin triangle sac with one that was like a foot deep for another few hundred.
Derek Boyer
derek.boyer@att.net

2000 Epic S22
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