Mature engine/low hours - What type of oil?

[Rambling Wreck]

First, I know this topic has been beat to death - I have been reading a lot of posts. However, back in 2004 there was a discussion as to when to go to synthetic oil. The consensus seemed to be to change oil at 200 hours and to go to synthetic then, not before.

Here is my issue: I bought Breakawaydaze's 1999 E21 this summer with 65 hours on it. It now has 125 hours. I think the oil has already been changed to Mobil 1 synthetic (Breakaway, jump in here? if I misunderstood). The oil is dirty (dark) so I figured I would change it as part of the annual maintenance. It was dark when I initially checked it right after the purchase.

Soooo, let's here some opinions from the gearheads - do I change back to a natural oil now, do nothing until I hit 200 hours or change the oil using Mobil 1? I am asking as it is an unusual combination of age/hours.

PS: Toyotafreak also suggested using a Mobil 1 M1-301 oil filter, IF there is room to install it, as it has double the volume and media at about the same price. Of course, the boat is "there" and I am "here". Does anyone with an E21 know if there is room? I like to buy "here" instead of "there" since there is no where to buy anything "there". This may just be personal preference but does the Mobil 1 compare favorably to Toyota factory oil filters?? Does it have the little oil reservoir thingy that helps lubricate the engine on cold starts?

[wakejunky]

My 2 cents

It would be nice to have Breakaway confirm the type of oil used, but regardless that engine needs time to break in and I don't believe 65 hours will do it. Who knows when he switch to it either, or even if he did. It could possibly have only been run for 20 hrs on conventional oil (total guess). If the oil has been changed to synthetic i would switch back to conventional oil until it has 200 hrs. Synthetic oils protect so well an engine cannot fully break in and set the rings. this is why all manufacturers use conventional oil until after the break in period. If synthetic oil is used before the suggested time an engine could use oil, have excessive blow by and never fully break in resulting in being down on power. although not very common it could also use excessive fuel.
? ? Although some of us may use our boats more than others, oil should still be changed at least once a season and possibly more if you live in particularly wet areas. Water, moisture combined with oil for long periods can cause oil to become very dirty or even start to sludge. (not good for VVT either)
? ? personally I would change the oil when ever it starts to get dirty. For me that's when ever you cant see through the oil anymore. while clear is best an amber color isn't bad, but as soon as it is passed that I would change it. The oil passages for the VVT are very small and you don't want to clog them up. the actuators are very expensive.
? ?Other than that enjoy your boat and switch to the expensive stuff at 200 hrs.

[breakawaydaze]

The oil used on that boat was Castrol Syntec 5/30.  It is a synthetic blend.  The oil was changed due to it being dirty as well.  I don't think 200 hours is really a good idea for changing oil on anything.  The least you should do it is every season.  It is pretty cheap insurance, and not that hard to do.  In my opinion every year or 80 to 100 hours. (Some of us get to use their boat that much a season!)

My experience is the oil Will get a little dirty after just 30 hours due to full throttle starts over and over and near redline operation a good % of the time.

My 2 cents on engine break in is this:  More and more engine manufacturers deny break in is necessary.  Especially in super tight tolerance Toyota engines.  I have read enough to accept that it is OK to switch back and forth between Synthetic and regular oils.  But why would you, the superior protection of the synthetic is proven.  Sludge would be my primary concern for this engine.  We get Toyota's in the shop all the time that are all sludged up.  While this is a characteristic primarily found in the V6 Toyota's,  a little more often on the oil changes would virtually eliminate this concern.  Also for the overboard crowd (Wreck this includes you!) you may want to consider using a standard oil for storage only.  Yes, a sitting engine is prone to alot of things, mostly moisure.  If you want to go overboard, put a standard oil in the engine for storage (with the old filter) and then replace it with synthetic and a new filter when you get it out for the season.  This will eliminate long term storage moisture concerns, and get you fresh synthetic for the season.  The idea is having new synthetic oil for use, not moisture affected synthetic oil.  Like I said, for the overboard crowd!

[toyotafreak]

Overboard, reporting as ordered, SIR!


The Mobil 1 filter is way better than TOYOTA. The OEM filter is good as far as regualr filters go, but it's not 'premium'. There are tons of sites out there run by people much better informed than me, but in short, you get a solid case and base, the anti drainback valve, oooooooodles of synthetic filter material, and possibly most importantly for us overboards....an M1 sticker.

[Rambling Wreck]

The feedback is appreciated. After posting, I started to wonder what Toyota says about the whole thing. I figured there had to be a lot of us ?overboarders? (Yes, I am one as Breakawaydaze knows!) that would have a hard time going 200 hours before an oil change. I dusted off the manual and began to read again. Sure enough, TMS recommends changing the oil annually or 200 hours, whichever occurs first. In fact, the manual says, ?change your oil and filter prior to storage, even if your last oil change was just a few weeks ago?. If the need to avoid synthetic oil for the first 200 hours exists, I figured there would be a warning about it. However, there only two warnings.

1.   NOTICE ? The engine oil recommendation is a synthetic SAE 5W-30 oil. Any other SAE rating may result in damage or excessive wear to the engine and should be avoided.
2.   CAUTION ? Failure to follow the engine oil recommendation listed in this manual can cause additional engine wear and increase the possibility of engine component failure. Damage to your engine due to incorrect oil usage can be costly, and it is not covered by your warranty!

I have never felt comfortable changing oil at the END of the season and letting it sit all winter. I was getting into the idea of going to standard oil for storage as Breakawaydaze suggested ($10 for a 5 gallon jug of oil is cheap), running for a hour in the spring to pull any accumulated moisture into the oil and then changing again. The question then would be whether to stay with standard until I reach 200 hours or go with synthetic. However, my reading of the manual is to never use anything except synthetic.? ?

Although TMS agrees with you guys that the oil should be changed prior to storage, I need to ask ?why??.? I would just like to know the theory behind it. To me, if you change oil as part of the winterization process, it then just sits there in the oil pan. How is this better than waiting to change oil as part of the Unwinterizing procedure in the spring? (After running for an hour to pull moisture into the oil)

PS: Toyotafreak, its MR. Overboard!!!

[2000epic]

I work at an oil refinery so I thought I'd chime in on the oil change before storage issue.  if you are running regular oil or a blend...there is no oil refinery on earth that can get all of the hydrogen sulfide (H2S) out of petroleum products.  When your engine goes from cold to hot and hot to cold there is a small amount of condensation that ocures.  This condensation combines with hydrogen sulfide to form sulfuric acid...bad to leave in your pan all winter.  also a good reason to change your oil every three months regardless of milage/hours.

[breakawaydaze]

Mr. Overboard,

The reason you don't leave old oil in the engine during storage is due to the fact that the oil you have been using has micro-particles suspended in it. (I.E. DIRT)  If you let the old oil sit for several months, theoretically, the suspended particles settle to the bottom (I.E. Oilpan sludge).  Dirty oil out, suspended particles out, new oil in, everything nice and tidy, new moisuture laden oil out, new operating oil in, everything great guns in Mr. Overboards boat!

Just my overboard opinion!

Hey, how about the last east coast roundup before all of this winterizing effort?  I know it is the latter part of September, but jeesh, it's still 90+ degrees out.  (This all from the guy that no showed last time!)