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May 06, 2025, 15:36:35 pm

Author Topic: Prop Help  (Read 1508 times)

wakejunky

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Prop Help
« on: July 12, 2006, 08:21:39 am »
Just when I thought i understood props ???

My question -I have an 01 SX. I have a SS 4 blade 13x13.5 prop and a SS 4 blade 13x12.5. which prop will give me a better hole shot? I believe the old owner swapped to one of them for high altitude and I'm? basically at sea level (400'). with just the factory ballast 600 lbs. or so and 4 adults it really struggles to get on plane quickly. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Doug
OVER 800 HRS ON 2 EPICS.
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extruop

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2006, 17:20:37 pm »
I should let Derek the Freak comment on this.  He is the man on several items, but has definitly given props a bit of thought.  Plus he runs a SX.  I have a Direct Drive X-22 and am new to this.  I just whent thru what you are looking at now. Read through the old threads.  It will help you. 

If your too lazy to look back.  Here is my Cliff note version.

The first number on your prop is the diameter.  The second number is the pitch.  The pitch is the thoretical distance the blades move in the water with one revolution.  If water were solid your 13.5 would move 13.5 inches per Revolution.  The 12.5 would move an inch less.  Now it gets pretty complicated from here.  There is all kinds of different variables. The ratio of your tranny.  The cup (a little lip on the prop to help make the prop more efficent).  Three blade and four.  Elevation.  Engine performance.  Blah, Blah, Blah, the list goes on and on.

So here goes at trying to make it simple.  At any given speed (MPH).  The 12.5 pitch prop will be turning at a higher RPM than the 13.5.  The Lexus motor likes to run at a higher RPM than most V8's.  Higer RPM is good at lower speeds. The 12.5 will give you more Horsepower or torque out of the hole. ;D

The best thing to do is find out what your WOT (wide open throttle) speed and RPM is.  If you are not running pretty close to 6000 RPM at balls the the walls.  You will propably be better off with a shorter pitch prop.  My bet is that even at sea level you will like your 12.5 better.  The only thing to remember is that it might limit your top end speed.
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toyotafreak

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2006, 19:15:27 pm »
Nice job, right on the moolah. I'd just add that it'd be fantastic to get a GPS and plot your speed vs. RPM with BOTH props. That'd be a really nice test to see actually what difference a 1" pitch reduction will do.

To tell you the truth, there have been some reports here that make me doubt the concept that top speed will always be reached by the prop that allows you to get to redline 6KRPM. What it will get you is the 'right' prop for general use at a given set of conditions - you don't have to worry about overrevving the engine while on a speed run, and you don't leave any RPM unused. We don't care about top speed usually, but it will mean that your RPMs and torque will be meatier in the region we care about (20 to 30MPH).

>>>all the following is pure wild a$$ speculation and all references to props are old school stainless like mine, not the ACME and XMP 3-blade props<<<

If you used this as a runabout and wanted to optimize for a lot of open-water cruising, you'd probably want to get RPMs down really low and would leave that SS 4-blade 13.5 on it. Your hole shot will suck and I can't even speculate on top speed...

If you had a thousand pounds of sound system like SHAWN, or lived in the Himalayas like Bitzy, your prop won't be the 'right' prop for general use any more. Your engine won't be able to push the boat at 43 because of extra weight (Shawn) or reduced engine power (Bitzy). Maybe 40's your new top, and maybe that comes at 5500 rpm. It's not the lost 500 rpm up top that matters, it's the fact that even at 20mph, you'll be pushing with less engine power. RPM might actually be a little higher (more slippage), but you'll have to use a higher power setting to do that. To optimize for a 'general use' prop with the permanent extra 1000 pounds or extra power lost to air density, you might need to go with a SS 4-blade 12.5" prop.

Now, if you really want to be a pimp like Cal and always roll with nine guys and eighteen melons and some fat sacs, but still want a boat that'll perform, AND don't care what your top end is, AND you unserstand that you will have to watch the RPM if you do end up in a speed run...then you can prop for the weighted condition. If you plan for 3,000 pounds in the boat at all times, maybe you want to prop so that you can hold 4,000 rpm at 24 mph. This will give you the most torque down low when you need it coming on plane and still let the torque be high enough to hold speed at 24. Let's just say that equates to dropping pitch down to SS 4-blade 11" or 10.5". You'll turn a lot more RPMs and burn a lot more fuel when crusing around the lake light, but what ballasted up, you're gonna be in phat city. Be careful when you drop of your crew, because you'll be at engine redline at 35 or so.



I'm still not sure where that ACME 543 fits in at 13" x 11.5". For those of us with the standard reduction (1.26:1), I think the 543 just ends up being the 'right' prop for general use, aka it allows us to use the full RPM range and is more efficient because of the blade count, area and thinness. It's a little shorter than the stock 13x13.

For the boats with higher gear reduction, the ACME 543 is probably more like a wakeboarding-optimized selection, where the boat pulls all the way to the rev limited, and you turn quite a few more RPM at wakeboarding speeds.

To get a wakeboarding prop on a 1.26 tranny, I'd still think you need to go shorter than the 11.5" that ACME recommends. I haven't tried it, I don't know.

ACME says the 543 is the right prop for each Epic because most of the Epics came with 13x13 props. Some of the Epics came with a higher gear reduction (can't remember if it's 1.46:1) like the SX but used the same prop as the 1.26 S22. This means that the SX came with a wakeboarding-optimized prop from the factory. The S22 didn't, as it was intended for general use.

To get the S22 optimized like the SX, you either have to reduce the pitch of the prop even further below the 543, or change the reduction in the tranny to match the SX (like Capt. Rick did with his.) Of the two options, one must be better, and my guess is that it's changing the gear ratio, but that's just a guess. There may be efficiency issues running much lower than 11.5" pitch, I don't know just a guess.

I would love to see the comparison between GPS speed vs. RPM curves in Rick's S22 at 1.26 and then at 1.46.
Derek Boyer
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PSullivan3

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2006, 20:55:57 pm »
I don't know what the S22 was like before ( ricks) but I know this it is Quicker out of the hole then my buddies SAN ,or the Calbria Pro V this is their comments they love to go slalom on it

extruop

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 01:43:27 am »
I am planing on posting my MPH at every 500 RPM from 2000 to WOT on my current prop (OJ 13x13 three blade) and the ACME 542 (same as the 543 only right hand. both are machined 3 blade 13x11.5 .080 cup) when I get it.  Believe it or not I went and bought a GPS so I could do it.  Derek is a bad influence.  Hopefully that info will help people including me find an ideal for what they want to do.
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toyotafreak

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 06:28:19 am »
27 posts and you've already figured me out :-)

Every once in a while Pete will basically slap me back into this world. Although I sometimes hide behind the "I just want to make sure it's done perfect with this boat" it's probably just adult daydreaming. This is all very fascinating to me, and although I don't have money or time to exercise all my options, it's not a waste of time to think this stuff through. Usually.

That will be a great test to go from the stock 3-blade to the ACME. I'm very happy that you're headed to the dark side.

Maybe I should change my handle to Rainman.

When you do the measurements, try your best to go full tank, empty boat, calm water, maybe get smart and record approximate temperature and altitude, and let the speed stabilize well before recording. You'll have some GREAT data for us to pine over!!!!! I smell a spreadsheet coming on!!!
Derek Boyer
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extruop

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 18:24:52 pm »
27 posts is right but I dont have much to say yet.  It scares me to think how many hours I have spent in the last 6 months reading through the old threads.  I am starting to think that a few of you guys are sick.  The worst part is there is a chance I have caught the virus as well.  If I end up with with a thousand friggin posts on this website sombody call for an intervention!

Anyway,  The prop should be here tomarrow.  If it arrives I am hoping to hit the lake Saturday.  The GPS has an altimeter.  I will be hitting a mountain lake near Salt Lake early in the morning.  Little chance of anything but smooth water.  I will going early so I doubt I will have anybody with me but my 12 and 10 year old sons.  I cant wait to see if the throttle bracket I fabricated for my Perfect Pass will let me the throttle truly wide open.

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toyotafreak

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Re: Prop Help
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2006, 18:52:12 pm »
New bracket...we need PICS of that thing either way. Hope it works out for you!
Derek Boyer
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