V drive or direct drive?

[jonwadkins]

Just wondering what you all would say about a v drive (S22) vs a direct drive (22) for our family.  We are a family of four, me, wife, two small kids (5 and 3).  I like the 22 as I think it is a better boat to ski behind.  My wife like the S22 as it is more open and has better sitting for her and the kids.  My bother in laws wake board but are not hard core so I don't know that I need a SX or X22.

Also, how do I go about finding a Toyota boat for sale that is reasonably close, we live in Northern Arizona.

Thanks

PS I want to stay with a Toyota boat as I know about the reliability of their cars and trucks.

[flyn2001]

Talk to Cyclone on this site... Last I remember he is selling his "immaculate" E22 for around $18.5  It is pretty nice and I think he has pix.  Go to the Epic Forum link, go to Boats, and just look at the titles of the threads.  I'm sure you will find what you are looking for.  Hope this helps.

[Ktown]

You have 2 big decisions in my opinion.  How much do you want to spend, and how important is the seating arrangement.  The DD boats are less expensive than the V drives and are much easier to work on.  I believe they have the same seating capacity, it's just not as cozy.  If you don't need the lower gearing (SX) for serious (ballasted) wakeboarding, and don't want factory integrated ballast then the S22 or X22 are your best bets for the money.  Ultimately though, you should buy what you want, not what is available.  The worst thing you could do is buy a boat that you talked yourself in to wanting.  That said, I agree with Flyn, Cyclone's boat is a great boat for the money and has all the options you could ever want.  If you decide on the DD, then definitely check out his boat.  Good luck and welcome to the forum. 

[Rambling Wreck]

Search around some of the old posts. In addition to finding some opinions from folks that are really into skiing and those that are into wakeboarding, you will find comments from some that have owned both type boats. Besides, you will have fun and learn a lot by exploring the site. However, after you have spent many hours in your quest for knowledge to help find the perfect boat, I think you will find that you answered your own question with the sentence that begins, "My wife likes...".

Whatever you decide, you will LOVE your Epic. I think there is universal agreement on that one-

[lesman01]

HA! yes. " My wife likes...." that's why I have an S22 epic instead of a 10 year old Mastercraft dd.

[phenom_1819]

Ditto Wreck's comments.  You will love whichever one you get.  But that being said, here's my take on this:

In a perfect world, I prefer d-drives and wouldn't have second thoughts about buying anything else.  But it's not a perfect world. And if I were buying an Epic today, it would be a v-drive, and specifically an SX. 

There's three reasons why: wakeboarding convenience, boat practicality, and weather (weather?).  And regardless of which boat it was, there would be one accessory to buy a boat with: Perfect Pass.  Now for the explanation...

The wake:
I like the wake better on the X22 than the SX (I have ridden both) -- the X22 has a little more firm of a wake, and I feel that the SX lacks the kick off the top that I prefer.  But, to get the optimum wake in the X22, you need to have bags (or fat people) all over the place.  The v-drive -- just fill the stock ballast in the SX or throw a sack or two in a S22, bring along 3-4 friends and call it good.  My ruling: X22 for best wake.  But I prefer convenience (as would most), so the v-drive is the winner in this category.

Boat Practicality:
A v-drive has more room and places to store bags, wetsuits, lifejackets, etc.  There's no disputing that.  The SX takes this one too.

Weather:
I live in the northwest.  And in the northwest the weather can change very rapidly.  Wind can come in and blow out a lake or river in a matter of 15 minutes and leave you scrambling to get back to wherever it was you started from.  Let me tell you that this SUCKS for the back-seat riders in a d-drive.  The wind blows water in everybodies faces and you all look like drowned rats by the time you make it back to the dock or boat launch.  Your friends will reflect on this unfavorably and may never go boating with you again.  In a v-drive, this doesn't happen (at least not as often) because the back seat is so much further forward on the boat and the wind doesn't affect back-seat riders as much.  Plus you have a deeper keel which cuts better through the water.  One more check for the v-drive.

So I'd buy a v-drive.  But why an SX over an S22?
Most people with the reasoning that I do would be satisfied with either, but I run with a lot of weight.  If I were buying a v-drive, it would have the SX's transmission gear ratio.  But most wouldn't weight a boat like I would, so this wouldn't be necessary to most.

Perfect Pass:
Don't question it, just get it -- or find a boat that has it installed already.  This is more important than anything described above.  Trust me.  Your wife will be happier with this decision than anything listed above. 

My wine glass is empty, so I'm done.  How about creating a "post of the month" award??  Can this post still be nominated? 

[cyclone]

I can relate some other things that I have noticed, owning both boats. The D drive (I'm referring to the open bow D drives in this post) is great, I'm taking it out tomorrow for probably the last time. I love this boat. The wake is better than the SX right now, mainly because it's dialed and the SX needs to be trimmed out a bit. The D drive does have a nice pocket about 70-75 ft off. The V drive is not as peaky but I need to try it with equal bow weight to give it a fair evaluation. 750 in the walkway.

There is a ton of useable storage in the D drive. The side pockets with netting are so handy for flip flops and stuff. Making people get up off cushions to access storage really sucks. I did use a walmart bag under a rear seat cushion as a trashbag, it works pretty well. I don't have the V drive storage/useage figured out yet. Having to open the hatch every time is a pain, esp. since I fixed the latch, which has an inconvenient handle. The space is there, but I might just put a sack in the trunk and put some stereo stuff in the V drive space. 8 x 12's or something.

The trunk on both boats is awesome, my SX trunk opens straight up for better access. My Epic 22 trunk lid doesn't stay open, and it opens to about 70 deg. This was fixed on later Epic D drives, Cal's boat has the improved gas cylinder, it has one center cylinder and opens to 90 deg and stays open! That is something worth posting a pic of Cal, it would be a cheap, useful mod for older boats.

There is less room under the seats in the V drive, which suprised me. I thought I would be able to put a bow sack up under there, but I don't think so. I don' wanna crack fiberglass.

The side storage is almost the same on both boats, but it is bigger on the D drive. The V drive has a nice wall for amp mounting in there. It is a beoch to install and work on equipment in this space, both boats.

The cooler on the V drive is not as nice. It is not a hinged cushion, so you have to pull it off, kind of tight if the jump seat is installed. It is also about 1/3 smaller than the D drive cooler.

Both boats drive very well empty, the V drive is snappier than I expected. The SX has a different transmission, 1.43 or something vs 1.23 on the direct drives. I get 6109 rpm at about 36 mph on PP, which I have NOT calibrated yet with a gps. This is with PP installed, and a 4 blade OJ nibral prop.

The D drive gets 5800 rpm at 37 mph, on a PP that is uncalibrated as well. 4 blade OJ nib with .080 cup.

The tramp top will be cooler on the V drive, because the back seat is further forward and will shade more people back there. Too bad you can't get those anymore, it would be worth getting one made.

[flyn2001]

And to set the record straight....the X22 does have factory integrated ballast!  Just set up different/little less weight than the factory SX ballast.  My boat does have a pretty sweet cooler, but it isn't hinged, you still have to pull the cushion off, pretty easy though.

[phenom_1819]

I don't have the hinged cooler either...you have to pull the seat cushion out.  And all of the X22's have an integrated ballast sack in the trunk of around 550 lbs, but that really is about the only non-cosmetic difference from the E22. 

[masonlk]

We have a E22 and do a little of both. I'm more of a skier and just took up boarding last year along with our 11 year old son. I figure if he ever gets good enough that the boat doesn't work for him anymore some sponsor will give him one to ride behind.

Ditto the comment about you will love whichever model you end up with.

I went out today and pulled the tarp and cover off to see how she faired over the winter. I was a little concerned about the freezing weather and the fact that I got lazy and didn't disconnect the battery. Flipped the battery switch, hit the key expecting nothing and vroom, she fired right up. No cranking, no hesitation, gotta love these boats!

[blindside]

Try em both out and then decide for yourself.  Some prefer one and some prefer the other.  My wife liked my dd for the color it was lol I like my vdrive for the storage, space and requires less ballast for a great wake.