Does this boat look familiar?

[toyotafreak]

Interesting stuff you guys. Should probably not have to say this, but my vote is that they got a copy of the files that were used to build the molds from someone other than Toyota that used to be part of the team. How many people do you think had access to the CAD files? Not a ton, but probably a half dzen different firms. I'd believe it was reverse engineered were it not for the similarity I see in every single piece of fiberglass inside and out. If I were gonna reverse engineer, I'd stop at the outer lower hull and then fabricate up from there.

There is also possibility that Toyota did sell the files in a real low-key manner. Anybody else in the loop would be taking a big risk in selling them. EOS pulling a mold of a part is a different story; what's the chance Toyota would want to take the time to prosecute them?

[brad]

Has anyone tried to contact Dave Triano of Shadow Composites who claims to have designed the Epic SX?  Maybe he knows something about this.

[phenom_1819]

Welcome to the site, Brad!

You should go ahead and give him a call. This is your first assignment for initation: call him and report back.    I'm curious if he knows how hydroswift got the molds...??

...and I know y'all think this is a lost cause, but...

I find it quite amusing how after we all started going crazy on this topic here and on wakeworld EOS boats has kind of just blipped off the radar screen.  They haven't run any ads on ebay for a long time (they were running several at the same time, for about a month or so).  Their website http://www.hydroswiftboats.com/cgi-bin/inclin?inview=B1-396&pid=396 is still under construction.

I think it's clear these boats are carbon-copies, and it's clear that Toyota quality doesn't transfer through carbon...

We'll see what comes of EOS.  The more I think about it, the more I like Derek's analogy of the Cobra vs. the Cobra kit car, and whether the replica is good or just detracts from the original...

Speaking of which, anybody seen the new Mustang? Damn...I wish I didn't need a truck to tow the boat!!!

[brad]

I emailed Dave Triano.  

He wrote back that he hasn't had any dealings with Hydroswift and is under confidentiality agreements with Toyota.  He re-stated what Toyota said publicly about destroying the molds.

Hope I passed the initiation assignment?

By the way, Shadow Composite is now Triano Marine Design.

www.trianomarine.com

[cyclone]

I bet they just pulled some molds off Brads' boat or one like it that they acquired.

Re-animation, copy not as good as the original, and a bit scary. HP Lovecraft is awesome.

[brad]

I guess I didn't pass the initiation since Pete now thinks the molds came from my boat.  Can I carry the watercooler or something else to become card carrying member?

[cyclone]

I didn't mean that at all. It was a compliment. The perfect specimen copied horribly. Seriously, that kind of thing is probably what happened. It is so much easier to make a mold of an existing object than it is to create one from a drawing. Your boat is the reference point.

[phenom_1819]

Brad -- come to Seattle...you can carry my cooler.  

[toyotafreak]

Stay away from the drunken pickleball, though. And Pete's little blue pill and 'serious green'. And my punk neighboor's flying butts.

Pulling a mold off that thing would be a most amazing feat. First, you'd have to take a perfectly good Epic and strip everything off that's not glass and gelcoat. Next, you'd have to separate all the glass pieces: top hull from bottom hull and liner from bottom hull and trim pieces from all three. Then you'd have to patch and polish every screwhole and blemish caused by stuff that used to be mounted there (like windshields, upholstery, brackets, etc.) and stuff cracked/broken while splitting the main structure apart. Finally, you'd have to prepare each piece to a better than new finish, because every blemish in the plugs (which used to make a boat) will be passed on faithfully to all future parts. An amazing amount of work and little chance to equal the costemitcs of even the cheesiest Glastron, Maxum or Sea Ray runabout.


Or, you go to Florida and come home with the CAD drawings and then have the old tooling rebuilt by a machine with exacting accuracy. Expensive to mill stuff that big, but it'd be the only way to go IMHO. Main thing is getting a hold of the CAD drawings.

[fat, bald and old]

There is a 2001 SX on ebay at the moment. The link is:(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63686&item=2488899005&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

Anyway, this appears to be the boat that those Hydroswift/EOS guys copied to create their boat. The cheap EOS can be seen at hydroswiftboats.com. I saw this SX on ebay, and called on it for curiosity sake. The guy, Jason, was reluctant to tell me he was a dealer but when I pressed him, he told me that his father or father in law had originally owned the boat and sold it to him 8 months ago. Playing dumb, I told him I wasn't sure I wanted a Toyota since they were out of business and he told me that if I didn't want the SX I could come in and see his EOS boats. He said (which I'm sure is not true) that the EOS boats were designed by some of the original Toyota designers.

Also, it is very interesting that the SX he is selling does not have the original graphics on it. I asked him about this and he said his father in law didn't like the graphics and took them off. Look at the new graphic, It is just the original blue stripe with a large Black, block lettered "TOYOTA" under it. I suspect these guys stripped that SX down, took it all apart, measured and molded, and voilla, they had the specs for their EOS. Add a crappy interior, an inferior engine, and some apparently untrue statements about the boat and you have a new boat company. Posers.

[phenom_1819]

Holy crap -- I think you nailed it on the head.  I saw the graphics on that SX and it got me curious.  I've had a few e-conversations with Jason.  He does read our site, by the way.  He signed one of his emails "A Toyota lover that wouldn't let them die completely."

Interesting.  Should we laugh some more at him on wakeworld -- for anybody out there that might actually want one of these EOS POS's?  I think it would be fun to bring this up.

BTW, great investigative journalism!

[toyotafreak]

Cool head's up.

Pete, some fat old bald guy has my signature on his post. What's up with that? Can't a librarian get any respect?

[cyclone]

Speaking of fat and old, I flew through the air and my hip got popped the other day and I walk funny right now. I have been riding too much since the PP went online. Awesome weather and not travelling, but my body can't do anymore! A coupla cold Negra Modelos helps. I should get sponsored by them.

Anyway, I think I may post on Wakeworld and see if any curious person wants to eyeball that boat up close, get an idea of the general condition of it, whether it shows tool scarring, mismatched or missing hardware, etc. Also, the carpet. All Epics had the same wierd thick carpet. I don't know how easy it would be to get an exact replacement. Maybe from Toyota still, who knows? I know that when you order stickers from TMS, you will generally get the wrong ones. I bet that after they stripped it and pulled molds, the copyright infringing dumbass called Marine Products up and asked for "Toyota Stickers" and that's what he got.

I'd like to get a pic from inside the storage compartment at the hull joint.

[cyclone]

Derek, seriously, I have been dinking with lots of stuff lately on the site but I didn't mess with your profile. Did you post that one?

[toyotafreak]

No Pete, not me. Besides, I'm not fat yet.