SX Ballast Upgrade

[cyclone]

So, I recently removed my stock ballast valves and pumps, and replaced the system that I hope will be faster and more reliable than the original.  The original system did not work reliably due to pumps that would not prime, valves that stuck, etc. I used the original two pump system but upgraded the valves and repositioned the pumps.

The inlet pump and thru hull is on the port side  of the bilge with the outlet facing towards the starboard side. It tilts whatever the deadrise is of that side of the hull, probably 20 deg. off horizontal. This is bad, as there will almost always be an air bubble trapped in the fill pump housing between it's outlet and the inlet of the drain pump. The drain pump was also positioned in a way that would make it not prime correctly. I rebuilt the original design out of PVC in 1" vs 3/4" and put a 45 elbow on the fill pump so it tilts back. I tilted the drain pump back and positioned it closer  to the hull so that it would always be flooded.

The system is very simple, and I wanted to improve its perfomance and reliability and preserve its simplicity. There is less than 10 ft of hose in the whole system;) Two pumps, two valves. The next step is a front sack, attach the outlets of the tanks to the sacks, and the sack vents to the hull vents. I didn't replace the stock pumps due to space considerations, I checked them for leaks and cracks, the Rule pumps can loosen up, and get cracks in the base from not winterizing, vibration, etc. I put blue loctite on the four screws that hold the base the to bodies of the pumps, some Rule pumps from that era had problems with the screws loosening up. In my experience, they are excellent, compact pumps, so I elected to stay with them as making room for any other replacement type would be difficult.

Here are some pics. The first is the starboard side valve and drain pump viewed from the top. I used clear hose sections so I can see if there are priming problems.


The second pic shows under the floor from starboard to port, the port solenoid, fill pump and seacock.

[cyclone]

I'm sure I'll have a bubble in between the two pumps, but I figure, if both are primed, either one should push the bubble through the other pump. If not, I'll put a vent line at the top of the loop;)

[brad]

Pete:

I plan on doing this upgrade this week.  I purchased the valves a few weeks back.

I'll be interested to hear how it tests out on the lake.

Thanks,

Brad

[cyclone]

Brad,
It's going in the water tomorrow so I'll keep you posted.

[brad]

Pete:

Worked on the upgrade last night.  I wasn't able to locate fittings for the 1" valves, so I did some reduction fittings down to 3/4" (seems like the hose connections to the ballast tanks are 3/4" tubing).  With the reduction fittings, the assembly is longer and is more difficult to fit in the small space.  Couldn't quite get it to work.  Ended up ordering 3/4" valves from eBay.  Once they arrive, I think I can match your design since I won't need the reduction parts.

[brad]

Here a pic of my 1" valve attempt.

[cyclone]

Brad, that looks great! You definitely should dry fit the assembly in the boat because it is a tight fit. I rotated the fill pump on the 45 to get clearance between it and the valve for the port (pass) side.

I tested the system this weekend and it fills and drains in SIX MINUTES reliably.

[cyclone]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I cut off some of the barb on the barb fittings to fit it together more easily and make it smaller. I think there were three barbs, I cut off two with PVC shears. It made each fitting an inch shorter. Hope that didn't screw you up too badly, Brad!

I have got the code up and running on my PIC microprocessor development board for the ballast computer. Right now, I have programmed the four buttons on the ballast panel to do the following things:

Fill: Turn on fill pump, turn on both valves, turn on Fill LED
Drain: Turn on drain pump, both valves, drain LED
Port trim: Turn on fill pump, port valve, Fill LED
STBD Trim: Turn on fill pump, stbd valve, Fill LED

I'm working on the code to drive the 7 segment LED level controls, I like those!! It should be easy.

I have the buttons programmed so that once one button is active, pushing any other button turns the system off. That prevents the situation that can occur where both fill and drain pumps are active at the same time.

I am going to program some generic outputs into the code, a dedicated one second output for gate valves, a total of six output channels for up to six sacks. Some of the features won't be used on our boats in stock config, but the options will be there if you want to expand your system.

My plan is to make a direct retrofit for our boats, then make a generic full function one that I'll try to sell.

What other features would you like to have in a ballast control system?

[brad]

Pete:

I didn't cut the barbs and was able to get it to fit (tight but okay).  Since I'm a slow learner it took a few tries getting the PVC parts into the right positions and several trips to the hardware store.  I also couldn't find the 45 degree elbow nor the 1 inch ID hose locally so I ordered them online through West Marine.  I bought a galvanized treaded connector between the shutoff valve and the 45 degree elbow.  Do you think I need to order a bronze one instead?  It also didn't help that after I got it put in I crossed the wires and somehow connected the drain pump to the fill pump -- water doesn't flow correctly when the wires are crossed!  Reconnected the pump wires and everything is working great!

Your description of the ballast computer upgrade sounds awesome!

I can't think of any other options for your design.  At some point (maybe this winter's project) I would like to place a bow ballast bag (probably in walkway with quick connects) and V-Drive lockers ballast bags.  Sounds like you're covered all my wish list items.

Let me know what I owe you -- can't wait!

[cyclone]

Brad,
I've taken a really good look at the stock system, it's actually really well engineered. The whole smart switch panel/DECC system was built by a company in Fort Worth, TX. It uses a microprocessor in the switch panel connected to another in the DECC relay box via two wire serial link. The boat switch panel has it's own DECC and accessories are powered directly from it. The ballast uses an extra relay box that the DECC controls that can handle more current. I could try to suck the code out of the chip and modify it but it is so well constructed I'd probably destroy it trying to do it. It is coated in about .125 in of conformal epoxy, truly marine grade. The switch panel is so nice I'm definitely going to use it. I can change the labels by printing on transparency paper if I want to. I'd REALLY like to source the rubber button molding with the LED reflectors built in, and the sexy bezel assy.

It's a very complex system, too hard to modify. So, I designed a PCB that will be a retrofit to the stock switch panel and will have a multiconductor cable going to a relay box. The relay box will have more capability (more sacks, pumps, etc) than the stock system, and I'll eliminate the need for the DECC.

I'll make the output of the relay box plug straight into the stock harness to the valves and pumps. It shouldn't be very expensive, the factory system is somewhat complicated as it is designed to be a universal switching system, I'll simplify things and add capability.

Right now, the program works similar to stock but the trim buttons simply fill one side or the other and you don't have to hold them. Also, I made it so if you are filling, you can't drain at the same time. The stock system will let the pumps run against each other. I'm going to put in a timer so that if you are filling or draining, it will turn off after a set time. I have run my battery flat by not remembering to turn the pumps off:( So, I'll fix it.


There's no need to do anything with the level indicators, they are totally independent of the ballast system.

[blindside]

I started yydrofoiling two years ago and almost never use my ballast any more   I used it for surfing twice and foiling once since April 07.  But dang do I still love this boat! Everything except the gauges of course lol.

[brad]

Pete - any update on your PCB?

Sure would like to convert the trim buttons to separate fill.

Thanks,

Brad

[cyclone]

I'm getting back on it. I got the programming done.

[brad]

Awesome!

Brad

[spokanesx]

Pete or Brad,

I am in the middle of upgrading my manifold and it is a really tight fit.  I just wanted to confirm that on the ends did you guys cut off the nipple and use the threaded section of the ports to the tanks?  I am afraid that when I did that I added to many parts for it to fit.  The other challenge that I am finding is that since these boats are not all made the same I can tell that the things are in a little different location that you show in your pictures.  It seems like my ballast ports are a little lower making it very difficult to get things in place.  Thanks...