Should I buy it??

[Steve G]

I am looking at a 2000 Epic 22 (blue).  $24,000 with trailer, tower, and heater.  Cosmetically it looks average, not super sharp.  Cover looks like it has 1 season left.  Any comments?  There are no ex-dealers at my lake.

Steve G

[Steve G]

It has 400 hours.

Steve G

[Epicrider]

Hi Steve,
 I can't tell you whether to buy it or not.But,I will say don't buy any boat until you take it for a test drive.They are fine boats!

[phenom_1819]

Steve, welcome to the site!  It's a very tough call for us do decide whether $24k is worth it, and generally it pretty much just comes down to what you think the boat is worth. Toyota prices are different depending on where you're at on the map, and many of the boats you can pick up for a bargain. I would say with 400 hours, that one is probably slightly overpriced -- especially if the condition is only decent, as you said.  But if the boat is worth it to you, you should just do it.  Plus, these boats don't come on the market all that often...

Gr8Dna or Cyclone could probably chime in things to look for when buying used. But there is one thing that all of us will agree on at this site: we all agree we have the most reliable marine engine out there...the computers act up from time to time, but the engine is bulletproof.  Rarely needs to be serviced, and oil change intervals are a lot longer than other boats. Awesome gas mileage (I burn about 3 gallons an hour in my x22).  The craftsmanship is top notch and you will not find a more solidly constructed boat.  The wake is awesome with a bit of weight (2000 pounds is prime in my X22).

And they look cool.

Possible issues down the road: parts (after 2011, when Toyota will stop manufacturing parts for the boats).  Resale will be low (but then again, that's why you get the boat for a good deal).

Good luck with the decision, hopefully whatever it was that I said was helpful...  

Hey, this is my 100th post!!! WOOHOO!!!

[toyotafreak]

I'll second all that.

That seems like a reasonable price for an Epic with a factory tower. I do believe that there are Epics out  there in pristine condition for close to that price - if you're up for the adventure, my vote is to be patient and find a really clean one. On the other hand, it will age better than an MC, SAN or BU since the materials are so good so an 'average' Epic now will be 'super clean' in a few years. If it's an aftermarket tower or any other negatives, you should be able to get them down a few $k.

When people ask this question, I usually caution regarding obsolescence and resale value. If you require a 'pro' wakeboard or slalom slalom wake, look somewhere else.

Spend some time in the archives and you'll see what we think. And WELCOME to the board!!!

[toyotafreak]

Cal, that's twice today we've posted messages at the same time.

400 hours is nothing in the life of that engine, by the way.

I was talking to the launch ramp owner dude a couple weeks ago. Was out there on my buddy's boat, but I mentioned to this dude that I'm the one with the Toyota boat. Of course he remembered - out of the thousands of boats that go to his place, there's really only one Epic. Something cool about that.

[phenom_1819]

Aaah, the wake size.  I really think these Epics (my direct drive at least) throws as much of a wake and as clean a wake as you can ask for, and a better wake than we (on this site) give them credit for.

For the record, I'm not arguing...just expressing my difference in opinion.  

I rode behind a 2001 X-Star this weekend, which my buddy has been talking up for since he bought it a few months ago.  I gotta admit, I did not expect it to be as steep as it was (it was too steep for my preference)...and even with about 1600 pounds of ballast, I was going just as high behind my Epic, but the pop was less consistent than the Epic.  Also, the X-Star wake breaks to white wash at the top at slower speeds...I had to run a couple miles an hour faster behind the X-Star than behind the Epic.

I was watching Hype last night and the kids in the X22 were going big. Oh, and I'm not much of a slalom skier, but a buddy of mine said that my boat is his favorite to ski behind.

I think our wakes are under-rated. I don't know about the v-drives, but the direct drives I can vouch for.  No, they're probably not pro-size, but there are only a handful of boats out there that are "pro-sized".   You have to take pro-sized with a grain of salt, because it always comes down to preference anyway (as was the case with the 01 X-Star).

I'll post some pics this weekend to prove my point...  Oh, the upload folder is still full. Pete- any way to archive some of the old photos to make room for some new ones??

[phenom_1819]

Actually, make it the third time. I was posting about the wake as you were posting about us always posting at the same time.  

[cyclone]

I'll see what I can do, I'm on the road right now, but I'll look at it this weekend. I deleted a lot of junk a week or two ago.

That boat sounds like mine, look at the pics on the picture page. I think that if they are asking 24k you should whip out 18k and tell them that is all you will give them for an obsolete boat with no factory support. No, I'm not being harsh, that is what I will do when I find the right SX!!!;)

As far as hours go, I got into it with a dickhead on Wakeworld once about the life expectancy of a Lexus motor vs. a pushrod V8. I had 400 hours (0k, 389) on my boat at the time, I figured that I had about 27 yrs left at average useage. The motors are good to 3k hrs if you change the oil, 1k on a pushrod motor if you take good care of it before it's junk. It's a deal and destined to become a "cult boat".

[Steve G]

How is the boat for waterskiing?  Has anyone loaded it up to wakesurf?

Steve G

Thanks for all the good info.  I am trying to trade a 88 American Skier.

[dstafl]

Hey Steve, I most likely have the boat you are looking at. My is a 2000 Epic 22 (millenium edition-not sure if all 2000 are) Blue, Factory tower.

Granted I my be bias as most of us here, but it is such a great boat for everything. I wakeboard, Slalom,barefoot, Skyski. As others said its great for wakeboarding, but also good for slalom. I ran some courses with it and at 34-36 mph wake is quite flat.

Take a good look at how it will clean up, I know my boat looks like hell after a few weeks of not proper cleaning. The hull can look streaky, with a with chalky film. A good marine cleanser and a wax can do amazine things.
Look closely at the upholstery cushions, lift them up look all around and on the back side. They are harder to clean and fix rips.

The covers are somewhat lousy, mine  looks rather bad too.


   

[rfinn04]

I purchased my epic 22 last may with trailer, cover, and it only had 34 hours on it from an old epic dealer. The boat was in better than average shape, and i got it for $19700 and they found me a toyota tower for an additional $800. Hope this helps, the boat had been on consinement and was originally asking $23000.

[toyotafreak]

Differences of opinion are a great thing, and you must take what each of us say with a grain of salt.

Pete said dickhead ;-)

Cal, the wake. I agree that it stays cleaner farther back and at slower speeds than the two SANs and the Avalanche I've ridden behind. I like your '01 X-star review because that wake has a great rep when made pro-size. The SAN's awesome from empty to ?? Some people are really into their wakeboarding and seem to try to improve by fixing the easy stuff - gotta have the park board, the Parks bindings, the yellow jacket line, the sweet jacket, slickest slime, most CNC-d prop, absolute best ballast density, and oh yeah, 'best wake'. What's best wake mean, well as far as SANs go, these guys like popping up. SAN's great for going up, and I found it to be very consistent. With ballast it gets big, but it's always firm and fun.

From my experience, the v-drive Epic has a very clean wake with less steepness. Unballasted, the wake is soft and small. Sure, with good technique you'll still go up, but it's much easier to to go far than high. With ballast it gets bigger and much firmer, and up is definietely happening. Nice gradual transition, which I like. With 1500 and just a few people, we can drive down to 20 mph and still have clean lips with one section out of the rope. A SAN would be crumbly.

Everybody says that a narrower boat will be more easily sunk, and ours are not narrow. A SAN is narrow (and short) which is another reason I'm happy with mine.

It's an amazing boat, and I'd have nothing else. However, even Travis Moye says that that '01 X-Star will easily outdo an Epic. I believe him for one simple reason: you can put 3,000 in an X-star or SAN and get out of the water. Try that in an Epic...

...without a supercharger ;-)

[phenom_1819]

And I agree with everything you said. Though I don't think any wake can ever be judged without ballast in the boat. Also, my point was that 99% of the people out there don't need pro level wakes or 3000 pounds of ballast.   80% of the people get all the wake they need with just a fat sack or two.  The 1% of riders that need to load 3000 pounds of ballast into their boats are getting paid to do it.

Anyway, my point is that the wake is awesome, and size is plenty (if not more than plenty) wake for more than 99% of the riders out there.  Plus, anybody with any emotional attatchment to their boat wouldn't think of putting 3k ballast into it, anyway.  I know I wouldn't do it... I love my Epic.

Love you, Derek...can we kiss and make up?

Steve -- We all love our boats, and I'd bet that satisfaction from Epic owners is higher than any other group. We know that we probably have the highest quality towboats out there. We know the situation we're in with parts, etc (which really won't be a problem for about 7 years anyway), and we know that we have a great community to bounce problems, fixes, questions and ideas off of.   I certainly have no regrets whatsoever.

[toyotafreak]

Cal says: "We know that we probably have the highest quality towboats out there."

Try..."we know we probably have the highest quality towboats EVER MADE."


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