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May 03, 2025, 16:12:00 pm

Author Topic: Epic Wake Boats  (Read 4475 times)

cyclone

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Epic Wake Boats
« on: September 14, 2004, 04:17:17 am »
http://www.epicboats.com/

Doesn't seem to be anything there yet, and I can't find Level 10 magazine anymore online to corroborate. I'll see if their email link works.
Pete

'01 Epic SX

cyclone

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 04:21:44 am »
Nope. It's probably somebodies class project web page.
Pete

'01 Epic SX

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2004, 04:58:53 am »
Okay guys, this is a real company. I was contacted several months ago by the owner of the company to just give him some feedback on what he was planning and maybe head off some negative reaction. Seemed like a good guy, interested in quality and therefore respectful of the TMS experience we all share.

Among other things, I questioned his choice of names and cautioned that people would instinctively draw a connection to the Toyota boats, which truthfully IMHO would be a poor choice. He explained that he chose the name before he knew anything about our boats, and since the number of Epics is small and waning, that over time people would forget and/or just let his boats speak for themselves.

So check his recipe: "The quality of these boats will be extraordinary, the first version (the Ramp 23V), will be made for the hardcore wake crowd.  With every accessory imaginable, lots of room, easy to clean, lots of storage and coolers, and many creature comforts gear directly at the rider. "

What I can tell you is that this start-up has been in the works for quite some time and in the limited amount of information he shared, seems to be a serious effort. Based on what I've said here, it'd be cool if you guys could just check them out as if they were any other new boat company (not the easiest task, ya know.) They're doing it on their own, unlike the EOS/POS dudes.

Not sure if the owner was just investing some time in me to make sure when we discovered the new line, that I'd write this email to keep the Epicmariners from overreacting...or if he really did want my input based on what I like about the Toyota boats (which have a reputation he really respects). Here's an excerpt of some stuff i sent him:

One of the complaints I have with ours is lack of snap-in
carpeting. The hull top is bonded to the bottom half,
sanwiching both the liner and the friggin carpet. Our vinyl
looks awesome, best around, but the carpet is showing wear.
Had Toyota done the textured glass floor with snap-in
berber, we'd be styling. Would probably cut down on mildew
issues, too.

A great feature on the Epics is the beam-width trunk that
opens to the swim step. A great place to store a pair of
boards, a ski and some ropes or a Big Bump, or a Fluid
Concepts 1000 pounder.

Carpet everything. Use the molded sound absorber under the
removable floor panels. Upgrade the muffler to keep things
quiet even if it costs a few ponies. Make the steering
light. Do dripless packing as standard equipment (will
prevent us from screwing things up). Do the removable picnic
table thing - chicks dig the crap out of that for some
reason.

Leave options open for the flip-up helm seat thing in case
bow rise gets marginal. In fact, I'd probably use the thing
flipped up on crowded days even without bow rise just
because it gives better visibility.

Consider offering souped up options like Hellroaring
Isolator dual battery installations, and pre-plumbing HEAVY
gauge power wire to the place most likely to house amps
(seems most towboat dudes are pimping their systems way
beyond what any boat manufacturer would supply. You COULD
offer a tower box with or without speaks but fitted well to
your tower and gelcoated to match the trim of a particular
scheme. With your logo.

Offer a trampoline top for your tower - you can tow with it,
and they look pimp.

Consider those bitchen turbo-lube hubs, even if they haven't
come out with a disk version yet.

Longshot, strategic idea here: keep your eyes open for a
diesel or turbo diesel that's about the right size - fuel
economy and oodles of torque, and most of these towboat
dudes are used to thinking of diesels (in their tow
vehicles) as the serious choice for power and longevity -
the right powerplant choice."



Blah, blah, blah, right? That's probly why he picked me. Knew I'd talk your ear off.

Derek Boyer
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2000 Epic S22
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cyclone

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2004, 05:54:53 am »
Hey, nothing wrong with that. I could add a few things, I skimmed down so forgive me if I repeat but the way the trunk opens on all Epics sucks. You can't get in in from inside the boat.

BUT the trunk is huge, and offset from the transom by about, what, 2 FEET or something? That does three cool things:

It makes weight in the trunk weigh "more" because it is actually behind the center of gravity vs. the running surface.

It makes the prop inaccessible without trying too hard. What I mean is that I am 5'11". If I have my nose on the swim platform and stick my big toe down towards the prop as far as I can, I can just touch the prop. The prop does not turn at idle like it does with some ski boats. I think that safety probably was a huge issue to Toyota.

It creates HUGE AMOUNTS OF STORAGE!!!!!

The tendency to porpoise is aggravated by weight in the trunk, unless you have a fatty in the walk through!! That 's the deal, and two sullen teenagers sitting up there eating guacamole chips and bitching about having to wakeboard.

Pete

'01 Epic SX

cyclone

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 05:59:35 am »
No doubt on the diesel idea.
Pete

'01 Epic SX

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2004, 06:30:12 am »
Yeah, those were most of the real specifics I gave him. I was a little more interested in the business side of things and really repect someone like this. My biggest deal is that compared to mainstream companies, there is SO MUCH ROOM for improvement in boating/towing. Properly funded, a guy could really do amazing things in relation to his peers, and the profit margin SHOULD be off the charts. Wanna talk about the cost of liability insurance, check out that Cessna's cost of goods sold is like over 50% insurance. The other <50% is cost of materials, labor, a lifetime's support, marketing, and oh yeah, cash proceeds. Not saying that starting a boat manufacturing business is easy, but I gaurantee it's ten-fold easier than starting 99% of other non-recreational businesses.

About the trunk: I like how it opens to the back. It can be a drag at times, but it's cool to be able to take your board off, climb up on the teak, open the hatch and stuff yer board in there. A bigger complaint with me is how friggin hard the v-drive hatch is to open: they were so focused on keeping owners safe from 'operating machinery' and inadvertant opening that they've made a risk factor for back injury. I get embarrased when i have to tell people to get up so I can open the hatch (with two hands grabbing stuff four feet apart.) The later SAN electric solenoid locks are infinitely cooler (but electric and therefore risky unless there's a mechanical override.)

I for one am looking forward to checking out these new boats. He made some real interesting claims regardng their ballast system, like that patents were pending. Basically, the first model is a no-compromise wakeboard boat, but the second will be more family oriented. I told him how some people are such serious wakeboarders that they'd pay huge sums for a small, cramped boat (SAN) with a great wake. Nice boat on its own behalf, but a lot of folks buy it simply for its good wake. That's the market he's aiming for, and he believes that the sum of all traits qualifies his as the 'first wake boat'. Pretty big claim, let's see if it's backed up.
Derek Boyer
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Chris A

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2004, 08:24:29 am »
Well hello,

Hmmm, a lot to address here:

First: I think epicmarine is a great site and a really cool way for Toyota owners to stick together and keep their boats in tip top shape.

I actually wrote to introduce myself to gr8dna a few months ago to get his views on Toyota?s boats and what I was doing.  (I got your address off WakeWorld, which I frequent a lot).  I appreciate the feedback and although the snap-in carpet won?t make it into the first line the diesel is in the works?

Anyways, the website is not even close to anything yet.  We don?t have a first boat finished yet so there is really nothing to put up yet.  For trademark reasons our lawyers said we had to at least have a front page up.  I am a web designer as well and just put up a .jpg of some flash ground work I did in my spare time anticipating our launch.  The e-mail links should work, but I haven?t received any mail for a while.

Sooo, onto this new Epic Wake Boats company.  We have developed a unique hull design specifically for wake creation.  It hull optimized for wake size, ramp, and transition through its D.R.O.P zones (Dynamic Reduction Of Pressure Zones).  Cheesy acronyms, but you know?  The deck and interior has been geared directly to wakeboarders needs, lots of seating, storage, sound, easy to clean and maintain, easy to operate, and of course all the accessories(shower, boot luber, wired remotes, BIG easy to use hard tanked ballast, and a couple other things I?ll leave until the launch to bring up)  General specs for the first Ramp 23V:  22?9? long with a 98? beam open bow, V-drive PCM ZR 6.0L Engine, Titan Series II tower and Titan Accessories, and seating for 14(tiny people, of course:).

Well, I guess I shouldn?t go into too much detail here, but I?d be glad to answer any question you guys/gals might have.  The first prototype should hit the water in a few weeks and I?d be happy to share pics and more info when it is all finalized?

Thanks,

Chris Anthony
Operations Manager
Epic Wake Boats
San Diego CA

phenom_1819

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2004, 16:55:01 pm »
Chris -- I'm probably the epicmarine.com'er that you were worried about "over-reacting".  :)

Just wanted to say that I appreciate you making the effort to address the Toyota Epic crew before launching your boat -- of course a name is a lot different than a hull, and I promise, I will be objective (but I refuse to be objective with the EOS/POS people -- they have been very un-cooperative in sharing information with us -- like where the molds came from).

But seriously, welcome to the site, and thanks again for considering us before moving forward with your new venture.  Good luck with the boat, I'm looking forward to ***hopefully*** getting to see (or maybe ride behind?) a prototype!
Cal
Yakima, WA
Previous owner of 2001 Toyota Epic X22

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2004, 18:12:39 pm »
Cal, if Mapquest is correct, you're 1159.99 miles farther from San Diego that I am. Figure who'll get to drive the other Epic first?

Besides dude, Corona is 96.9 miles closer to you than San Diego, which means you'd really be smarter to just hook up with the toyotafreak gr8dna and drive the S22.

And Chris, the offer still stands - if you need a break and have a day, I'd love to take you out to Smellsomewhore for a few pulls.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 18:13:12 pm by gr8dna »
Derek Boyer
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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2004, 19:32:51 pm »
That's what airplanes are for -- I can fly down and be in the driver seat of the prototype before you even get through So-Cal traffic and onto "the 5!"  I just looked at mapquest too -- you know I bought my Epic just 30 miles from Corona?  The TRD dude I bought it from lived in Huntington Beach.  
Cal
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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2004, 20:56:45 pm »
Hey Cal....  did you buy your boat from Bob Giese?

In response to a new boat manufacturer....

All's I can say is good luck!  You can have a great product with revolutionary ideas at a decent price and still struggle(like the B52).  The trap is: if you're different, then people are reluctant to drop big bucks on a gamble.  If you are not unique, why wouldn't they just buy a MC, SAN, Malibu, etc?

Only crazy people like us bought a boat without a fan-following (for re-sale purposes).

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2004, 21:02:44 pm »
That I did!  He was great through the whole thing -- has even found a couple parts laying around and is nice enough to send them to me.  I still email back and forth with him every once in a while.
Cal
Yakima, WA
Previous owner of 2001 Toyota Epic X22

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2004, 21:10:16 pm »
That's cool....  He is a really nice guy.  I used to talk with him occasionally, but not lately.  I'm sure he took really good care of his boat.  Small world, huh?

Chris A

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2004, 23:17:13 pm »
Wow, you guys are quick...

Yeah, VillageIdiot just fly into Gilespie Field then it?s an easy drive to Mission Bay where we will test the proto in a few weeks.  We have tried to make these boats really salt friendly :)  

And krejciman, the B52 is a great boat but I think they have had some trouble getting things stream lined up there (or maybe Mike B is happy just plugging along a little slower these days :)  I have really focused on making these boats very manufacturable, so we don't have any hold-ups on the production side when these boats hit the market.  Then on the other end I think we have a really good strategic sales plan to get these out as quickly as possible.

And gr8dna, where is smellsomewhore?

And thanks for the overall support; I will keep you guys posted on the progress.  I have to go now, as we are welding up another Gantry to pull this deck mold :)

cyclone

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Re:Epic Wake Boats
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2004, 15:20:00 pm »
Chris,
Good luck to you, I'd certainly like to check one out when they're ready. There is always room for improvent in boats, I am reminded of that every time I visit a boat dealer and find that Mastercraft still can't build a comfortable back seat, or that Nautiques still don't have any room or storage, or the boat has no cooler, or the quality control is not great, etc. I decide to stick with what I have.

There is always room for someone that can build a better mousetrap. I agree, I think the B52 with the 2 speed trans is the best boat out there now, but people won't buy'em because they are too worried about people not thinking they aren't cool because of the label. MB Sports/Brendella boats are solid and top quality. To me that's all that matters, but the boat buying public is fickle.
Pete

'01 Epic SX