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May 06, 2025, 08:22:33 am

Author Topic: pack your shaft or go dripless?  (Read 2387 times)

masonlk

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pack your shaft or go dripless?
« on: June 01, 2006, 02:16:43 am »
1. Haven't found the 5/16" teflon coated (impregnated?) packing material.
    West Marine only has some dripless moldable packing. Has anyone used this?

2. Is the number on page 5 of the packing instructions a part number from
    a supplier? If so, who?

3. Toyotafreak, in a past thread, you mentioned a packless system from skidim.
    Did you or anyone else ever try it? CAPT. RICK, would this be ok or not?

4. Noticed my bilge pump is not automatic. It runs through the dash and must be turned on   
    manually. Normal or has someone changed this?


epic_toy

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 02:49:07 am »
4. My bilge has to be turned on manually at the switch, and then will run until any water is drained, then stop to prevent dry running (floater switch?). When it's drained the dash switch will stay on until pushed off.

toyotafreak

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 16:22:32 pm »
There was a guy on here a couple years ago that used to work for TMS. When asked about long-term concerns, one of the things he told me:

"I also think that people should think about going with dripless packings to try to keep their bilge as dry as possible. PSS / PYI makes a dripless packing for the epic shaft size and Toyota Marine prototyped it on the Gravity Games Boats for the 99 games. The seals performed flawlessly. Just something to think about."

Here's a website I found this AM after searching on 'PSS / PYI':

  www.shaftseal.com
Derek Boyer
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Bitzco

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 20:06:10 pm »
As for the dumb bilge setup, you have to turn the switch on to make it work. switch off = bilge off. When the switch is on, the bilge turns on when there is enough water to turn it on. Also, because the pump is in the front, the low back end of the boat can fill up with quite a bit of water. Basically, it only really works if you are sitting idling  Usually, I pull out of the lake, leave the bilge on and point the bow of the boat downhill until the bilge empties. If I don't there can be a lot of water weight in the boat to tow around.
03 Pilot, 01 Epic SX, 330 cc bombers and 4 kids in back. Working to retire to a lakeside cottage with my own boat dock.

Rambling Wreck

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 23:15:37 pm »
I am curious - why don't you remove the bidge plug when you take the boat out of the lake?
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Bitzco

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2006, 01:07:33 am »
It is the same issue. I can take the plug out, drive 25 miles home and still have water in there. If I just bilge it out pointed downhill, that gets more out. Do I just have an abnormal boat or what?
03 Pilot, 01 Epic SX, 330 cc bombers and 4 kids in back. Working to retire to a lakeside cottage with my own boat dock.

Rambling Wreck

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2006, 14:10:34 pm »
Do you remove the plug when still sitting on the ramp? It sounds as if your boat is nose low on the trailer on level ground. Heck, I have never even put mine on a trailer so what do I know! I just rememebr Breakaway removing the plug immediately after pulling the boat out of the water (on the steep incline of the ramp) and a bunch of water came out. I didn't even know why the water was in there to begin with-

We should get back to discussing the original topic of packing (boat) shafts.
Don't be so humble, you're not that great.

Bitzco

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2006, 14:45:27 pm »
Wreck, I like the way you think.
03 Pilot, 01 Epic SX, 330 cc bombers and 4 kids in back. Working to retire to a lakeside cottage with my own boat dock.

lesman01

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 16:30:41 pm »
what damage can be done if you have slight drip and the bilge pump is working properly? Are there compnents that will go bad in there with prolonged water exposure???

Mine drips a tad, but I get more water in the bilge from noraml water use like people dripping in the boat and my kid dumping cups o' water and stuff.

2000 Epic S22, Monster Tower, Monster Bimini, Acme 525 Prop, Tow Vehicle: 2003 4Runner

dawsonr

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2006, 18:10:30 pm »
I looked at the site for the dripless packing and noticed that it is a similar system that I am used to when I rode a nuclear submarine.  Back 30 years ago it was a self adjusting packing that was next to none for in it's operation.  I also believe that it is used in a majority of jet ski appilications and has served that industry well. 
The only down side is initial cost and you have to remove the driveshaft to install it.  But if you get past that, it really is a great system. 
The only other thing to keep in mind is the importance of NOT touching the graphite/ceramic sealing surfaces.  Believe it or not, the acid in your hands can etch away at these surfaces and severly shorten it's life span.  Properly installed, it should outlast you.

masonlk

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2006, 02:01:54 am »
The dripless system is very tempting but I bought 3' of packing from Marine-Products for $13. That should take care of me for at least 8 years. I also read a lot of posts on wooden boat forums about dripless systems. People either love them or are scared of the bellows rupturing.

My problem with the bilge pump is that there is no float switch and it is located in the front of the boat. It turns off auto. but then doesn't come back on when water accumulates. I'm thinkin' larger pump with float switch relocated to the back of the bilge and wired direct to the battery so it operates as needed without thought from the driver/kids.

epic-toy, do you leave your boat in the water at kenmore?

epic_toy

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2006, 03:17:44 am »
Sounds like you need a new pump? I think that pump is placed where it is becuase it's the lowest point of the boat when sitting there floating. At least it's the lowest point of mine because the water always gathers there (when present), but I'm usually not carrying weight in the back and it is DD. Could be different for V setup with lots of sacs in the back?

I'm curious where all you guys are getting this water? My bilge is always dry except for a few drops back by the shaft. Maybe I don't have enough water coming through the packing gland?

masonlk- I keep it in the dry rack storage in Kenmore. I call them and they forklift it to the water. Handy and keeps the boat clean, but scary when your boat is bouncing around 25' above parking lot!

toyotafreak

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2006, 19:19:06 pm »
Yeah, the bilge pump is located at the right spot vof a v-drive, but the drain plug is uphill from there when trailered. It's not safe to take the plug out while the boat's on a steep launch ramp, but I do it anyway at the lakes where doing such things isn't prohibited. It also slows down the flow a little at busy ramps.

The bilge pump can't remove all the water, and I'm not so anal anymore and don't vacuum out the water that accumulates there as often as I used to.

We use the ice box and it drains into the bilge, so even a dripless setup wouldn't keep the bildge dry. 25 pounds of water in there per day, right?

From what I recall about d-drives, there is usually a garboard drain in the transom that never gets used because of the drain plug midships that you unscrew and remove from under the engine cover. I'd very much like to install one of these next to my bilge pump. Problem is, I don't want to do it cheezy or hurt anything.

Would any of you d-drive dudes be willing to look at your forward drain and get a close-up pics from above and underneath and maybe try to lift the manufacturer off of the thing for me? In return, I'll put a nice procedure together for our v-drive brethren.

As small and lame a thing as the addition would be, I friggin hate water sitting there for months and neither nursing the water out with a wet-dry or lifting the tongue dangerously high are fun options
Derek Boyer
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cyclone

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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2006, 02:11:43 am »
The Rule 500 bilge pump should have an internal float switch, there are three wires. Brown, (12vdc) Brown/Black (switched 12vdc) and black (ground). They were frequently wired  backwards from the factory, mine was. It would make noise but not pump anything. I think you can reverse the wires at the switch on a non Millenium Dash boat (2 speedos) I just tested for 12vdc at the pump and soldered the wires with marine heat shrink. Check for polarity, I had to go brown to black on mine because the harness was backwards:(
You can buy an exact replacement from West Marine or Bass Pro Shops (yeehaw)
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Re: pack your shaft or go dripless?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2006, 03:20:23 am »
My boat has an Atwood bilge pump.  Is that the original equipment?