is this the stripped toyota?

[festivus]

Is this the same Toyota that was on here a while ago that EOS stripped and ripped?  I couldn't find the pictures of the one that was on the previous link.

http://www.boats.com/listing/gallery.jsp?entityid=13452851&galleryBack=%2Flisting%2Fboat_details.jsp%3Fsearchtype%3Dbuy%26showDL%3Dfalse%26showMD%3Dfalse%26back%3Dsession%26entityid%3D13452851%26searchid%3D1&pic=0

[phenom_1819]

That'd be the allegedly impure one!

[festivus]

I wonder why they think they can get 27500 for it when they couldn't get 21000.  Tards.
My borther is still looking for a V-drive somewhere other than 1000 miles away from Denver.  Anyone have any links?

[phenom_1819]

I believe the business name is different than the company that was trying to sell it before (remember the guy named Jason?).  My guess is they worked some sort of deal where they are selling it on consignment through another broker, to try and blur the connection to the crappy EOS boats.  Our discussions on the EOS topic last year created a lot of discussion on wakeworld...and I'm sure Jason was reading what we were saying about the boat too on this site.  They're probably trying to distance themselves as much as they can from it, and hope that some sucker will think it looks cool, won't check here or on one of the wake sites and pay way too much for a POS original-EOS.

[toyotafreak]

Where's our TOYOTA poser sleuth? Looking for uglier avatars, probably.

[Bitzco]

The Sleuth is in the house. You can always count on me. And, yes, I am searching dilligently for some new incarnation of human beauty to post for you all. What else is the internet good for?

[Bitzco]

Didn't take much sleuthing. Check out the pics from the old forum that Lesman put on the photo site. On page 26 of those photos are two photos of this same boat, fake Toyota decals and all. I suppose it could be an exact replica of the boat from the previous pictures, especially since the EOS posers are cloners. Perhaps their first attempts at cloning the boat only resulted in an imperfect copy which they dubbed EOS. Maybe this is a more advanced clone that more accurately  resembles the original. Perhaps they are charging more money for it because it is such an advanced clone. Its sort of like that sheep (I think its name was Dolly) that was the first sheep cloned a couple of years ago. They thought it was a perfect replica of the original, but it was actually a mess that croaked in a very short time. I hear that the new sheep clones last longer. They still croak though.

Anyway, Festivus, tell them to run away and don't look back.

I'll go check this boat out when I get a chance. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

By the way, the EOS dudes were at the boat show in Salt Lake. They had a few on display, so unlike last year when I talked with them, there are actually functioning boats instead of just a prototype. They are inexpensive and cheap, cheap, cheap. Crappy materials and workmanship all around. Still, I walked past their place several times and there were always suckers there who were interested in the boats because of the price.

Lastly, at the boat show, one of the EOS posers had a storage cover on it. I think it was actually just a hull with no interior. A work in progress that they were hiding under its cover. When was the last time you saw a boat at a boat show with a cover over it? Never. Also, if you remeber, when I talked with Jason last year, he told me they had made a direct drive model and sold a few. I thought he was lying through his teeth about this and many other things. Funny but for some reason there was no direct drive model at the boatshow. If you had a direct drive model, wouldn't you want to show it off and perhaps sell a few? I just can't stand dishonest salespeople. Liar, liar, pants on fire.

OK, one more thing. I was cruising the net the other day and ran across the company that actually designed the Toyotas. Here's their link.
http://www.trianomarine.com/Toyota.htm

Sort of interesting. If you look at thier homepage, they also do design for  a bunch of other companies. Funny that EOS is not among the companies listed even though Jason told me the EOS was designed by the same people that designed the Toyotas. Perhaps he could justify this lie with the sheep theory. Namely the original sheep was cloned, but without the sheep or its creators knowledge of the cloning. I wonder if Triano Marine would care that their design has been fraudulently copied and that they are being given credit for the inadequate clone. I'll send this post to them and see.

[Bitzco]

OK, I sent the following message and the narrative from last year's visit to EOS to Triano. They probably don't care, but what the heck (heck is a Utah word that means "h-e-double toothpicks" which means "the hot place where the devil lives." It's sort of like "dang" which means "a big concrete structure that holds back water to form a lake" or "doggone it" or "go to heck"). Anyway, here's what I sent 'em.

I was wondering if you were aware of the fact that the Toyota Epic SX hull was exactly copied by EOS/Hydroswift and that they are telling people the same designers that made the Toyota also designed their lousy EOS boat? I have personally seen the EOS boat and the Toyota SX on the Hydroswift lot that was likely taken apart and copied/reverse engineered. It seems criminal to me that they have stolen the design you created and Toyota paid for. In case it also seems criminal to you,  here is a narrative of my visit and interaction with EOS at their assembly plant when I witnessed their cloning of the Toyota Epic SX. The Toyota they copied is for sale and has been for the past year. I guess they have no more use for it and would like to get rid of the evidence. Patent infringement seems like a serious crime to me.

[cyclone]

Good work Bitzy! I will reward you with an email with pictures of ten of the ugliest women ever to consume oxygen on this planet

I have spoken to Dave Triano before, he's a great guy. There's a link to that site on the History page. I think he may have modified the text after I pointed out here that the tower design was copied by Mastercraft very soon after the tower was introduced. He should get credit for it.

I wonder what he will do with the EOS info, certainly Toyotas lawyers lunch tab is more than they could expect to squeeze out of EOS/Hydroswift. I'm sure he could pass the info along to the right people, if there is anyone left at Toyota that cares!

[brad]

Under the "Does this boat look familiar" thread, I contacted Dave last year about the EOS/Hydroswift matter.? It responded that he had nothing to do with the EOS/Hydroswift company and was under confidentiality agreements with Toyota.

Should be interesting to see if he or Toyota take any action against EOS/Hydroswift?

[cyclone]

Honestly, I doubt it would be worth their time. Those guys will be tits up in a year or two anyway.

[toyotafreak]

Dave Triano did not 'design' the boats, per se. Don't know exactly how much he did, but think it's like conceptial design of the boat's styling and maybe ergonomics design. Another firm did the actual detailed design and cut the molds/patterns.

You guys rule, and make owning this boat so much more fun.  Thanks to all of you.


Ps. Hey Bitzy, in Les' dredging of the photo vault, did you see my "330 cc bomber" pic I found for you? Now THEM 'ER GOOD ENOUGH FOR AN AVATAR :-)

[DTriano]

Hello Epic owners!

I have followed your topics over the last couple of years, and it's good to see such a group of dedicated, enthusiastic boat owners. Topics seem to get off the truth, sometimes, so on this one (that I can comment on), I thought I'd jump in and give you a bit of truth.

I designed all of the Epic Boat line. I still retain all of the original 3-D constructions for all of the boats (except the first, which I re-styled to suit Toyota tastes after the initial design service they used proved unable to do so, there was never a 3-D computer model of the Epic 21). In the marine industry, a designer is usually one of two things: a 'stylist' who just does exterior design (concepts, as this last poster called them, are a decent picture of this', and more 'naval architectural' designers, who also do engineering as well. On the Epic series of boats, I served in both of these capacities, with various degrees of involvement from each direction on each individual boat. On the SX, I designed all exterior and interior styling for the boat, built them in 3D, engineered the V-Drive installation, and had them milled out. Another Toyota-staff naval architect designed the hull running surfaces, and then Toyota's contracted shop (MD&D) assembled and 'production engineered' the boat in the new Groveland plant. This is typical of how a modern boat design project works.


I am under confidentiality agreement with Toyota (and will remain so for quite a long time, as we still have work contact with Toyota automobiles - I originally was an advanced concept designer for Toyota automobiles at their CALTY studio for five years), so I'm afraid I cannot tell you the whole, very interesting story of your boat's beginnings. Suffice it to say that they were (and are) superior boats in many ways, and but for some poor decision making and strange characters on board, the organization could have thrived.

Best regards - Dave Triano

http://www.trianomarine.com

[El Rayo X]

Wow, thanks Dave! It must be a heck of a story. I hope we get to hear it someday, while we're still young!  Doesn't everyone out there write a screenplay? You could change the names....

Titan Boats by Nissan powered by an advanced Infiniti mill:) take on the WORLD. Evil Lord Xstar

I'll say that after almost 700 hours of actual run time, and countless thousands of hours in the boat, there is nothing about my boat that I don't like. Every new boat I look at, I can immediately find some feature that I really don't care for, or that the boat doesn't have, and at least one major feature or characteristic of my boat that I would miss if I were to trade it in.

Most boats look like they were designed by about eight different people that never talk to one another. It looks like there is one crazy hillbilly and one Trekkie in the bunch. The dashboards often  look like a spaceship, totally out of place, etc. All other boat back seats are uncomfortable, period. They can't even figure that out. NO storage. NO cooler? cooler in the floor WTF? A trunk 6" deep, for what, dress slacks? Cheesy gimmickry like chrome or engine turned dash pieces that will blind you while you're driving. That is what is out there.

After five years and a lot of use, my wife would probably let me trade it in and get something new if I pushed it. We could swing it moneywise with a little budgeting. There's a boat show today, she even ASKED me if I wanted to go!  You know what? I said no. I've already got the best all around boat that I can buy, even if the seats need a redo. I'd rather get out the bucket and get mine clean for another 200+ hour season. I get comments all the time about the boat, people think it is the latest thing on the water. When I tell them that it's five years old, they can't believe it. Take a  2000 Xstar, it looks 30 yrs old next to an Epic. The MC Zeroflex tower came out in 2001, that helped its looks a bit;)

The only boat I would buy would be another Toyota Epic. I am not alone in saying this, several people on this site are on their second or third Epic. You did a fine job on the boats.

Now that I've buttered you up , I think that Derek may have a question for you about what is under the floor of his S22, he has an obsession with putting tanks down there like an SX. Is this a possibility or is there somthing different on an SX in that space? It sounds like you would probably know what's down there.

Thanks,

Pete

[toyotafreak]

Dave, my bad. (Silence falls over the room as Derek pulls foot out of mouth).

Thanks for 1) keeping in touch with us, and 2) taking a risk to set us straight.

You're right, we're off the mark at times, but you can surely understand how information-starved we are. I have had one personal source that gave me some detailed info, but as we can see in this very thread, sometimes sources disagree.


I believe one of the remaining TMS guys is on our board, and am sure that some of the priors monitor it at least to see what we're up to. Some of the most faithful corporate guys might be trying to keep a head's up to keep from getting blindsided by a group of aligned epicmariners, but I figure that a lot of the people involved probably feel for us and wish things would've turned out differently. Of this latter group, I'm sure most or all are still employed there and risk that path by talking with us. I feel for them. Maybe someday we'll luck into a relationship with a prior-TMS guy that parted ways with TOYOTA.

One quote from my source was like those three years were the best of his life (in terms of work at least).

I personally crave Epic info like Voyager. No detail is too insignificant, because I know that very soon, we're gonna be on our own. Really on our own. If it's impossible to get technical information now, imagine what it'll be like next year. Or five years from now. It's not so much like we REALLY need the stuff, cuz I'm sure we can find our way through each and every issue without TOYOTA's help. More like the information will be going away, and will be lost forever.

For example, I'd friggin love to have a copy of the TMS website. I've never seen it. I'd like to have all the TSBs and other circulars posted. I'd like to have all versions of owners manuals in nice electronic form. I'd like to have some drawings (like Glen-L elevations, etc.) so I can build a perfectly cool S22 remote control boat. Or a dozen of them. And yes, Pete, I'd love to see what's going on under the floorboards.



I understand your position; there is NOTHING to gain for you to compromise your agreement. Even if you leaked info to us off-line, it'd surely cause more questions for you, which would be a distraction from other (revenue-generating) endeavors.



We're in a vacuum, kinda like when the aliens gave the Egyptians them pyramids and then bailed without explaining what they were for or how to use them to drive TACAN receivers.