Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 16, 2025, 15:28:34 pm

Author Topic: Stereo System Upgrades  (Read 54668 times)

cyclone

  • Administrator
  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2005, 02:46:57 am »
Well, the build up continues. It seems like too much is never enough. I upgraded the cheapie sub to a slightly less cheapy 10" JL w3. It sounds good, but I suffer from a lack of power and not enough speakers or batteries. My wife totally disagrees, but that's precisely why wives do not design sound systems for boats. This season, I ran with about 1100 watts rms, four 6.5 polk momos in the boat, 4 polk Atrium 45's on the tower, and the one 10" sub. One cheap but potent and reliable Hifonics ZX 8000 five channel amp runs the hull speakers and the sub. One Kenwood (I know) 7201 two channel amp runs the tower speakers. Well, I blow'd up three of the four tower speakers, the tweeters anyway. They were a little overpowered, and I tend to turn it up sometimes. I couldn't hear them behind the boat anyway. They sounded awesome in the boat, great SQ.

I decided to replace the tower speakers with one of Squids  4 6x9 boxes. He posts on Wakeworld from time to time. I was thinking seriously about making my own box until I found his for less than 250$ delivered and painted. All I could make for that price would be a mess. His box is made from a mold so it doesn't have the heavy internal structure of a one-off box, but it has the strength because it is all fiberglass.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7192617710&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

I'm putting four Polk Momo 6x9's in it, from Ebay, of course. I'm in the process of being ripped off by a dickhead on ebay, az_electronics, who sent me one pair of speakers and insisted that he sent two. More to come on that, trust me;0 I plan on adding one more amp and a 12" sub, probably a JL w6. That should do me. I need to find space, it's getting tight. One more battery, too:)

Just think, in about four more iterations of stereo system evolution, and I'll be getting close to a west coast system. Of course, by then they will have moved on.

Anyone else renovating their sound system this winter?
Pete

'01 Epic SX

shawn

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2005, 04:00:27 am »
My favorite topic...This winter i am adding  4, 6volt batterries (if i can find room) and removing two of the three optimas.  Going from 5 idmax's down to two 12w7's.  Adding 4, audio control line drivers and a soundstream MPQ-5XO Parametric EQ Crossover.  By downsizing the amount of subs, it will allow me to put my rear locker sack back in and the heater as well.

cyclone

  • Administrator
  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2005, 05:38:53 am »
Shawn,
Why are you putting in so many line drivers? The AC matrix has three stereo channels. It doesn't have a facepanel to adjust stuff, is that why? I tried to buy one three times and got shined by online merchants. I didn't lose any money, they just didn't have product to sell. AC must have been having some issues, i'd guess. I have a faceplate design for a front end for that box. One thing, it can put out so  much gain that you could easily blow up a set of speakers with it, that's prolly why it doesn't have a faceplate. I still may try it, but that is ahead of the curve for my east coast Fred Flinstone system.

Anyway, are you getting rid of the cool ass speaker box in the back? If so, that is a shame but I can understand why. Where are you going to put your 12" subs? I'd like to hide mine as much as possible since I like the storage space.
Pete

'01 Epic SX

toyotafreak

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Classic and clean
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2005, 05:43:11 am »
Pete, I've been looking at them 7201s for a couple years. Any comments on it besides it blows Atriums?

I'm nowhere near doing anything like that, but it always seemed like at $150 a pop, one could push a sub well and another could run boat speaks.
Derek Boyer
derek.boyer@att.net

2000 Epic S22
Powered by Lexus, Fueled by Chevron, Lubricated by Mobil 1 ... DNA by Toyota

cyclone

  • Administrator
  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2005, 06:38:48 am »
I have designed this stuff from the power supply forward, I mean every part of it, and I used to really like the Kenwood stuff for cheap stereo crap. Lately, meaning with the 7201 era, they have lightened things up and used a fan instead of a bigger heat sink. That sucks. A cheap fan will fail and when it does the whole amp will fail. The older Kenwoods had more metal in them, better transistors, more robust power supplies, you name it. The new stuff is crap. I'll sell you my new 7201 for fifty bucks. It functions perfectly, but I want a more robust amp. I will put that thing on the bench this winter to see what it actually puts out, but it's supposed to supply 280watts rms per channel @ 2 ohm at very low distortion. I don't believe it. I had a four x 25 watt old kenwood powering 2 of the same speakers and a sub last year and it was louder and cleaner. A lot louder. That amp is in my truck now. A fan will not remove heat as uniformly as a big ass giant heat sink, so the devices cooled will not have a uniform temperature, and will not perform uniformly.

I would build my own amps but the hard part is making a pulse width modulated switching power supply that is small and quiet and supplies gobs of power. I made some good ones but they roached on the board when something got unstable. I gave up after a while The power supply is absolutely the key to good amp design, its why some amps will supply 4x times the power into 1/4 the load and others won't. The amp side is easy, just use big, high quality, relatively fast transistors and not a lot of them. Fewer components means less distortion.

I have had great luck with Hifonics amps. El Cheapo, made in China and they have that boy racer stylin' with the blue LEDS and stuff. They are heavy, which is the first sign of quality in any electronics product, no shit. Big heat sinks, power supply coils, big caps, heavy parts. If you open them up, they have high quality transistors, big, crudely machined heat sinks on every one, big ass wire, big caps, everything. They are ugly but they work. I will put mine on the bench this winter and put it through the paces. I tested it briefly before I installed it it met output specs no problem. Distortion analysis over 20 to 20 khz is another thing, that takes a while to determine. I have no issues with their stuff so far, reliability wise. I have 300 watts @ 2 ohms going to my sub, I may try a different amp to see if I can put more watts to that thing, it is a JL. I want to add another sub anyway.

The amp stuff is easy, as long as they don't cut corners. The key is weight. It sounds stupid but it's the truth. Weight is expensive. 
Pete

'01 Epic SX

toyotafreak

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Classic and clean
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2005, 19:25:29 pm »
So ae you trying to say you get what you pay for?

Dang.

Maybe I should just get a half dozen wireless headsets for the boat and call it good!
Derek Boyer
derek.boyer@att.net

2000 Epic S22
Powered by Lexus, Fueled by Chevron, Lubricated by Mobil 1 ... DNA by Toyota

cyclone

  • Administrator
  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #96 on: November 16, 2005, 21:41:35 pm »
More or less, but you can get a decent amp for relatively cheap. I'm a lot pickier about speakers.

I found a truly waterproof case for my Ipod Shuffle for 26$ Waterproof headphones for another 24. Sure is cheaper than a big giant stereo! Not as fun, though.
Pete

'01 Epic SX

shawn

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2005, 22:27:12 pm »
I too have had problems with AC trying to get the matrix, that's why I am opting for the overdrives. 

One 12 will be under the dash and the other will be in the rear locker, off to the side.  the hard part is going to find room for the batteries.

As for the speaker box in the back, i am keeping the molded one that holds the 8 12's, but scrapping the oher one that holds the four.

toyotafreak

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Classic and clean
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #98 on: November 16, 2005, 23:53:32 pm »
Did Grant ever check that 8-sub box? You're up there by him, you got any history with the dude? He's like Pete - got an idea? Git-er-done. I'm such a talker and never seem to get anything done. Grant's moved on to LED cupholders. Oh yeah, and them battery boxes in Teddy's SAN are off the hook. Maybe not so practical, but so friggin sweet (like the 8-sub box :-)

Just said this on WW a little while ago, but it rings true here: vision is less than half the battle.
Derek Boyer
derek.boyer@att.net

2000 Epic S22
Powered by Lexus, Fueled by Chevron, Lubricated by Mobil 1 ... DNA by Toyota

shawn

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2005, 01:45:45 am »
toyotafreak, check out the bottom of this thread, pretty nice words coming from the king of bling.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/260846.html?1129867831

cyclone

  • Administrator
  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #100 on: November 17, 2005, 04:32:58 am »
No doubt, I remember when he first posted those pictures, had to be in 2002 or earlier. I freaked when I realized it was an Epic, no mistaking the tower or the engine hump. It is totally over the top cool. I gather you were single at the time! I also was pretty psyched when the NY Times article came out with your boat in it, that is pretty amazing.

So, is the molded one going back in the boat anytime soon? I remember you said you had problems with the gas gauge, that could be shielded pretty easily. Keeping all the chicks from being attracted to the boat would be more difficult.

Grant is a very resourceful and creative fabricator. That is a talent I don't have, wish I did. I can build electronics from scratch but I cannot make two identical objects with hand tools. I'm not sure you can learn that, you are either born with it or not. It doesn't stop me from trying, though. Grant is an inspiration, and he is cool enough to show everyone how he does it.

Shawn, what was done to the inside of your tower box? Does it have separate compartments for each speaker? Is there dynamat in there or polyfill? I found some lightweight generic dynamat type sound deadening material that I am thinking of putting inside my box, and some polyfill too. I could add some walls between the speakers, but I have no idea if it would do anything to help. I've never heard a system with a fiberglass tower box, not many people around here do that. They just bolt up a couple of 6.5 cans. It's weird how far behind the curve people are with boat systems here. It's one of the biggest inboard markets in the country, there's tons of them on the lake but not many people go nuts with sound systems.

I am going to run all four speakers in series parallel and run the box in mono at 4 ohms. I think the sound will be fuller 75 ft back in mono. I'll run the kenwood bridged for supposedly 480 watts rms
Pete

'01 Epic SX

toyotafreak

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Classic and clean
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #101 on: November 17, 2005, 16:59:19 pm »
Shawn...nice link. I remember that thread but think I stopped following before Grant brought you up. You're right about the endorsement, too!
Derek Boyer
derek.boyer@att.net

2000 Epic S22
Powered by Lexus, Fueled by Chevron, Lubricated by Mobil 1 ... DNA by Toyota

cyclone

  • Administrator
  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #102 on: November 17, 2005, 20:28:17 pm »
OK, well I found a six channel line driver that is cheap enough and easy to modify. It was 35$ on ebay, a little over 50 shipped.

Here it is:
    *   High Performance Signal Processor
    * 6 Channels In/ 6 Channels Out
    * Parallel Input Selection for 2,4 or 6
    * Channels Input Sources
    * Low Level Inputs and Outputs
    * Variable Output Level
    * Remote Power ON/OFF
    * LED Peak (Overload)Indicator
    * LED Power Indicator
    * Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) Power Supply
    * Frequency Response: 10Hz to 3 kHz
    * Max Output Level: 8V RMS
    * THD:0.03%
    * Signal to Noise Ratio: 85dB
    * Channel Seperation: 60dB
    * Input ImpedanceL 20K-Ohms
    * Idle Current: 100mA
    * Power SupplyL 10-16VDC, Neg. Ground
    * Fuse Rating: 3A
    * DimensionsL (WxLxH) 11 3/4" x 12 1/2" x 2 1/4"

Since I'm going to modify it to use a remote faceplate, this design is easier to deal with than the Audiocontrol Matrix. Plus, it is less than 1/3 the price if I screw it up.

I will remove the pots on the board for the volume and remote mount three ganged (stereo) potentiometers on a small faceplate that I will put somewhere convenient. Haven't decided where that will be, yet. I will have independent control of volume levels for boat, sub and tower speakers. 8V output.     



Pete

'01 Epic SX

Bitzco

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • How Gilligan got off the island.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #103 on: November 18, 2005, 01:13:17 am »
I ain't got no idear what yous guys is talking bout. But, you shur sounds cool. I is waaay ahead a you all though cuz I just got me one of them new fangled 8 track tape players fer ma Epic. Eat yer hearts out dudes! Eight tracks of high fidelity sound comin  out a two sweet six inch speakers. The babes will be all over me! I'll be a playin that thing in the lake an in the street at the trailer park. It'll be sweet. I'll be more poplar than that dude in #54 who got hisself one a them Vesper scooters to ride aroun on. Babearama!!!
03 Pilot, 01 Epic SX, 330 cc bombers and 4 kids in back. Working to retire to a lakeside cottage with my own boat dock.

shawn

  • Toyota should pay me
  • *****
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Stereo System Upgrades
« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2005, 02:08:55 am »
Pete, I think you got a great deal.  I went on that website (millionbuy.com) and found the same line driver for $89.00.  Let us know what you think, actually I am going to go find it on eBay and buy one too.  Impulse buy, my wife loves it!